Originally Posted by
TRaffic Jammer
In good city traffic the rider will have caught up with the tail end of the traffic ahead, then they would do it to this grouping of traffic, thus virtually never passing or being passed by the same car twice.
First, I'm way behind on replying here. Sorry about that.
For a cyclist who can merely keep up with traffic (and not pass it like you are doing) or for a cyclist who cannot keep up with traffic. What is the benefit to be gained by going to the front at every light? Both of these types of cyclists will either be surrounded by motorists or getting passed by motorists in heavy traffic, right? For the short duration of a traffic light, what meaningful significance in terms of safety does being ahead of traffic have?
Originally Posted by
TRaffic Jammer
We two wheeled riders are seen as interlopers, as illustrated over and over by motorists, and by extension law enforcement's attitudes. Strength and power wins, and as long as there is the 'I'm bigger 'attitude behind the wheel, we'll always be in danger. I don't want to do a chicken/egg discussion as to how the attitudes were formed initially, I just ride the the system has grown. I get no hassles taking the lane when conditions are such that there is a high likelyhood of an accident that will impact a driver. (nasty storms and such...in Toronto I'll be grateful for this). Once conditions are better for driving, it's full speed ahead and get out of my way for all the metal beasties. I've often contended for years that if we had magical ACME 1 ton anvil hovering above us as we rode ready to fall on any car that got too close you'd see a remarkably differning attitude towards our cyclists, picking on the weak is much much easier afterall it seems
If I'm understanding you correctly, even in the worst weathe conditions, you do not have problems taking the lane. Then somehow, everything changes when the bad weather is gone. I'm having trouble figuring out how you can have any issues with taking a lane when in the paragraph above you just described how you are faster than all traffic most of the time.
You also describe motorists "picking on the weak." What are you doing that is giving motorists the idea that you are so weak as to be easy to pick on? I hate to sound like HH (only because he already talks enough about it, not that I don't agree with him), but it really sounds like your attitude is the cause of your problems in traffic. The fact that you describe yourself as an "interloper" and "always in danger" and motorists having "the strength and power" is really telling about how you ride in traffic. My experience in traffic is the complete opposite and I'm in the bottom 1% in terms of speed on the roads I ride.
Originally Posted by
TRaffic Jammer
Being ahead is better than being beside, however not always possible. Being able to share is a key skill indeed, the sharability of the curb lans changes as one travels in the city. Ppl turning off and on, parking, exiting parked cars, racing for the open centre lane from the curb lane, cabs diving for fares et al, are why I DO NOT want to be beside a car in the core.... "I'm sorry I didn't see you" might be a legal excuse that works, but if you get hit from behind.. then you can so easily call their skill as a drive into play as the ONUS IS ON THE OVERTAKING VEHICLE, this seems to be the one tenant of driving all ppl on the roads agree with, incl. law enforement. If a car crashes me by squeezing me into parked cars, turning on me, or some such looniness..I'm beside him in his blind spot, legal limbo.. kill/maim and get away. My personal space gets weirded when a car gets to within less than 6 inches, if I can reach out and tap ya without stretching then you are too close. IF I have run up to him this closely then it's not really his fault, but I can;t expect him to move for me, so I make sure I am in harm's way for as little time as possible
What keeps you from being able to be in front of the traffic in the same lane as you as opposed to next to it? Why are you moving to the right if it isn't safe and appropriate to do so? And please, spare me your personal interpretation of the law. Traffic law would never require someone to operate their vehicle in a dangerous manner. There are ALWAYS exceptions to the law in the situations where it describes a certain roadways position and that position is not safe.
Originally Posted by
TRaffic Jammer
They NEVER stop! Cars pull out from parking, exit cars, change lanes at lights, preturn, cross turn (I've had my worst accidents with cars turning across stopped oncoming, but failing to see me still being oncoming.. usually in the rain) Gridlock is the lack of forward momentum by not all momentum.
As I already asked, what then is the benefit of being out in front by yourself instead of moving along in the pack?
Originally Posted by
TRaffic Jammer
Around post 178, where "pro messengers" were differentiated from scofflaws. For the average rider, I'd recommend not being a gutter bunny, if you ride like you belong you'll be much less picked on.. BUT BUT BUT, you have to know when to hold 'em and when to fold'em as it were and this takes practice. Be adaptable and don;t ever expect to be treated like a car, EVER!! What would amount to a fender bender, could result in massive injuries or death for you. WE ARE NOT CARS!! In many instances in high volume situations in the city we are the fastest things around, faster than transit, faster than all but emergency vehicles
"if you ride like you belong you'll be much less picked on.." This sounds like a completely different person posting here. Previously, it sounded like there was no escaping the mean motorists. Now, you just have to ride like you belong and they'll treat you much better. And what is this about being treated "like a car"? You seem to constantly go back to this. You seem to be in the minority thinking that being treated "like a car" is better than being treated like a cyclist. I greatly prefer the treatment I get as a cyclist. Complete strangers are sometimes so happy to see me that they take the time to offer some actual words of encouragement. When's the last time that happened to you while driving?
Originally Posted by
TRaffic Jammer
Oh my 
hardly, sorry to give you that impression. I hardly ever get honked or hassled considering the amount of time I'm riding in core traffic. Sure everyone gets the knob, or sometimes I'm the knob, but for the most part it's easy sailing. This way of riding I've become adapted to over twenty years ago. I ride as if I'm invisable plain and simple b/c that's all I ever heard after confronting motorists for their bad "sharing". So I stopped expecting to be considered, but refused to run from them. Guess what .. it worked. Now I wouldn't go riding this way in high speed arterials though. Like I said grouper fish with sharks.
Perhaps riding as if you are "invisible" is another cause of some of the grief and danger you experience riding in traffic. If you truly believe you are invisible, you must be constantly trying to dodge passing motorists and always getting out of the way (ironically, in the worst weather, you somehow become perfectly visible and able to take the lane though). Do you ride with a mirror? If not, I truly believe it would be an eye opening experience for you to see just how visible you are to motorists when you ride in a visible and predictable location. The best part is that you can take the same riding style and use it on high speed arterials (reference HH's dynamic lateral lane positioning threads for a pretty good idea of how I ride).