Last frame I recieved was from BF'er s70rguy, came all the way from the Netherlands. Excellent packing job (photos in the Gazelle #2 thread in this forum). Before that BF'er Lowcel shipped me a full carbon frameset, think you could have just about jumped up and down on that box without damage to the frame. I reused that packing material plus about half a roll of packing tape (on the inside of the box) when I shipped a frameset back in December. Shipping was only about $20 for that frameset. Shipping full bikes, even within the US, gets much more expensive, and fast.