Originally Posted by
operator
Keirin bikes have track geometry, which blows for real riding. Go buy something that isn't marketed for hipsters and get something practical. That you're from SF is just massive lulz.
Keirin bikes = zero marketing if you haven't noticed... at least in the states. No idea about Japan...
Originally Posted by
deathhare
The new Panasonics are about 4lbs on average.
That's not anything really heavy IMO. Just normal for a good steel track frame. If you buy a Nagasawa or a 3rensho (I did), you'll find it won't be any lighter or built any better. NJS frames are, as everyone knows, made of steel and built about like a great frame in the 70s would have been. Theyre no modern carbon or AL frame and cant be compared with one in the weight game. More than anything, at least they have style and are built to the utmost quality standards and have never seen a Taiwan factory.
As for the stiffness...not sure if theyve changed or not over the old one you have/had but the new green one I had awhile back was a very stiff frame.
Out of my 3 keirin bikes I've had, the Anchor with Kaisei 8630 tubing seemed a bit lighter than the other two, almost too light for steel... Keep in mind there's a decent range of tubesets the builders can work with, from high end stuff like Columbus Genius or 8630 to more entry level like Kaisei 019 or 022. But yeah, weights per frame are probably not varying by any more than a pound from lightest to heaviest tubesets...
And stiffness, well it mostly depends on tubing diameters from what I know, but with lugs you can't work with a whole lot of diameters really. I think Kaisei offers two or three diameters for their tubes, not sure about other builders. As far as getting a legitimately stiff steel track bike for racing track, oversized filet brazed/welded would be ideal.