yeah no kidding, me too. I did 25 miles on tuesday and my knee started to get little twinges in it at around mile 20. I'm still tennis-shoe equipped.. nothing worked out last weekend. looks like I'm going to try & mail order some Lakes. On a positive note, last week I picked up a fizik alianti sport take-off saddle for $20 at the bike shop, seems like once I adjust my sit bones to it, it'll be great. (way less pressure in the perennial area, my original specialized seat was rather dome shaped on top) I'm going to try some longer rides on my mtb this weekend (longer than an hour on the trails) on my to see if it's a geometry problem w/ my road bike, or maybe a slightly bent BB or something.