Originally Posted by
sacha white
Skinny,
Frame alignment alone has multiple phases throughout the building process and takes a combined 3+ hours for me and my assistant. If someone wanted to skip processes like this, and proper lug fit up for a good, strong, straight joint (another 1-3 hours) and any number of other steps that make a frame Excellent, then the frames could be put out in a shorter amount of time.
The 10 hour frame is not what I am here to build though, and it's not what people come to me for.
-Sacha
Of course, you are doing the presentation. But it doesn't take anywhere near three hours to align a frame and you don't have to skip processes like you suggest to properly align a frame. In the shop I was at, we tacked the main triangle, aligned, brazed the main triangle, aligned, brazed stays, aligned, etc... There were many alignment steps and they were performed on a machinists table with a dial guage. If I say alignment of a frame took an hour of total build time, I'm overestimating. Now any builder worth his salt knows that if you put a perfectly aligned frame under a rider, it takes less energy to ride and the rider perceives it to be a better riding frame. These frames are literally raved about and sought after I think because alignment was heavily emphasized. They did use all investment cast fixtures that come with the right tolerances for proper brazing, which along with the reduced finish time is the main reason builders use them-less prep. You don't have to skip proper lug fit it you are using quality investment cast lugs, bottom brackets, crowns, etc... with standard tube diameters as it was all done back in the day. If you want to carve little flames into the lugs like some builders, then yes, the instability in the lug requires more attention. But good investment cast lugs require little prep. This isn't Mercian hearth brazing custom cut lugs and tapping with a hammer to close the tolerances between the lug and the tube.

And if one wants an example of how it is possible to get proper lug fit with investment cast lugs and dramatically reduce production time, one only needs to consider the 80's example of Trek who were building high end frames with silver brazing, which for the uninitiated requires the most exacting tolerance between lug and tube, and doing it quite well. They didn't have Joe Bell paint to fancy them up, but they were straight, rode well and lasted with no compromise in lug fit.