No need to apologize. I'm not offended in the least. I just wanted to weigh in with my $0.02. For many years I rode almost eclusively in full lycra kit because I kind of felt like I had to in order to be considered a real cyclist. In the early ninties I owned a Bridgestone RB-2 and was a "Bridgestone Owner's Bunch" (BOB) member, so I was on the original, introductory Rivendell mailing list. When I first looked at their bikes and their approach (I think it was in 1996) it looked really "dorky" to me and I thought Grant had gone off the deep end. Over the years it gradually became more and more appealling and I started inching more and more in that direction. Now I have two Rivs and I never wear lycra. I have no problems with folks who prefer to wear lycra when they ride and I'll even concede that it has it advantages. I just wanted to point out that the Rivendell approach isn't just a bunch of hooey.