Originally Posted by
Indie
I don't see why pointing out that men are privileged equates to telling them they're doing something wrong.
As a parallel: I'm white. On a conscious level I'm not racist and I try to second-guess myself if there's the potential for being racist inadvertently (I think it's a bit arrogant to say that I'm never racist -- surely even the most open-minded person catches themselves making assumptions or believing stereotypes now and then).
I also know that just because I'm white, there are many situations where people will treat me better than they will treat someone who is not white, all other things being equal. The colour of a person's skin does affect how other people perceive them, sometimes consciously and sometimes subconsciously. I may not have set up the system this way, but I certainly do benefit from it. I recognize that this is not fair.
Having an equalist mindset is half the battle for an individual who is on the privileged side of any given divide (i.e. someone who is white, male, straight, etc.); the other half is listening when the people on the other side say that they are being hurt, and not assuming that they're making it all up, and not telling them to stop complaining because they're better off than they would have been fifty years ago. It doesn't help things progress if the privileged people decide for the people who are being hurt by the divide that 'okay, this is good enough, we don't have to work at equality anymore'.
The point isn't recognizing it, it's that the effect of it has a negative impact. No one is saying being a white male makes you wrong here, but implying that we have a negative effect because that's how culture has set it up.
Not saying it's not correct. just saying that people are going to take offense that they are doing something wrong, or at least, inadvertently having a negative impact on someone by simply living their lives.
The problem here though with equality is that, in what way are we not equal? Men and women all have the same rights. same goes for people of color. So at this point it's perception. That is the issue at hand.
What we are arguing here is not equality, or any of that, it's what is the best way to change perception.
I mean, Hilary Clinton wasn't far off from being the democratic nominee, and Obama may just become the first, non-white president we've ever had. So I don't think the issue here is "equality." It's an issue of perception.
What I was taking exception to is that a lot of people want to change things by pointing fingers. Culture doesn't change that way.