Originally Posted by
dutret
You really think you could tell the difference between two bikes made with equivalent tubing and geometry? Yeah sure different builders will do slightly different things with the butting but really it doesn't make all that much of a difference. Builders can build drastically different frames but if you say I want something like this steelman you're not going to get something all that different.
But they aren't equivalent. They are different.
Maybe you need to ride some of these bikes, rather then speculate. Go out to the races. Test ride. Talk to people in the real world. Get some experience. It might take a while to adjust to the society outside of the message board, but it will begin to feel good, honest.