Originally Posted by
pomalift
I just bought a centurion with a serial number of:
N6P3153
I assume it's a 1986. It's been rebuilt by a guy in my neighborhood with Ultegra cranks, Maillot 500 hubs, Matix rims, and Shimano 600 derailers, shifters, and a Tange Seiki Levin headset. Any idea how to figure out which model it is? It does not have eyelets for fenders or a rack.
Thanks!
Originally Posted by
A. Winthrop
...Hard to tell which model without any decals or tubing specs
but my very crude guess would be a late '86 Ironman Dave
Scott or maybe an early '87 Ironman Dave Scott "Master."...
Oh, and no eyelets for fenders and racks would also lend
support for my guess as the Ironman models also had none.
...Weight might be another indicator. If your bike weighs about
21-22lbs, that would also suggest an Ironman...
Originally Posted by
Robbie Tunes
I'll agree with A.W. on the Ironman model. If that bike is under 23 lbs, I can't imagine what other model it would be. It's hard to get a Lemans that low, and frankly, I'm not sure it's worth it....
Originally Posted by
poimalift
Thanks for the input! I'm not sure they used this Levin headset on the Ironman. Also, could't be sure if the Shimano 600 components came with or were added after the re-paint. Also, does anybody know about the Maillard 500 hubs?
The frame could be either an 1986 Ironman Dave Scott or a 1986 LeMans RS. 1987 is also a possibility, but 1986 is more likely, given the fortnight of manufacture. Both frames had identical braze-on features and no dropout eyelets, so there is no distinguishing factor there.
I would also not put much credence in determining the model based on weight as the LeMans RS was full Tange #2. The difference in the weight of betwen #1 and #2 was only 70g and when you consider that the Ironman used a mixed Tange #1/#2 set, the weight difference should be even less. This is certainly not enough of a difference to gauge the model unless you have a known Ironman or Leman RS frame of the same size and year for comparison using the same scale.
While the deraiilleur system is a match for the Ironman, the Ironman models I've seen have all used the two tone, black anodized and natural aluminum version, not the monochrome, natural aluminum version as pictured. This, plus the fact that none of the other equipment match original Ironman spec, put little credibility in the derailleurs being original.
The headset also does not appear to useful for determining the model. The Ironman used a Shimano New 600EX headset. I don't have info on the LeMans RS but the bicycle itself used a mix of Shimano Light Action and Z-series components, so while the Levin is possibly OEM, it may also have been a replacement to fit the crown race of what is obviously a replacement fork. Given the replacement fork and repaint, I trust this frame was not crashed. I would be closely examining the underside of the top and down tubes, in the vicinity immediately behind the lugs, for any signs of wrinkles in the tubes.
I know of only one distinct variation in the frames and another possible one. The geometry of the two did differ but the replacement fork nullifies many of the measurements. The chainstay length did differ but it was only by 5mm and we are not certain which point of the dropout was used. Top tube measurement is just as futile, as they differed by only 1mm. That leaves seat tube angle. The Ironman was spec'd at 74 degrees while the Lemans RS was spec'd at 73 degrees, both for 23" frames, which is what you appear to have. You can get out your old math protractor and cut a couple of templates out of box board (i.e cereal box cardboard). Basically, the templates will look like a couple of big pieces of carboard pie. You will have to cut the corner off to clear the lug collars. Don't forget to mark the angles on each template. Place the templates between the top and seat tubes, to determine which one matches.
The other possible inidcator are the caps at the top of the seat stays. The Ironman pics show these to be embossed with "CENTURION". I don't have pics of the LeMans RS, but the absence of embossing may indicate a Lemans RS, if the templates prove indecisive.
The wheels sound like they came off an old Trek by virtue of the Maillard hubs and Matrix rims. The 500 series was a mid-range hub with the Helicomatic freewheel, a unigue cassette freewheel design permitting outboard hub bearings and easy cog removal. Unfortunately, the design also uses small bearings and accompanying, non-standard cones which are getting very hard to find. Cogs are still available but getting harder to find in a good selection. The unique, cog removal is still available but demanding increasingle higher prices, as are all Helicomatic parts.
Originally Posted by
A. Winthrop
... As for our 10% fee, T-Mar,
I haven't received one yet for all the bits and pieces, yours
and mine, included in various Centurion eBay listings. Have
you been getting them all? :-(
I haven't received anything for all my postings, except for making some e-mail friendships and numerous donations of red stars, all of which I've turned down. Yourself and another BF member are the only two whom I have seen give me credit as source on websites and I see my work being reprinted, verbatim, on numerous sites. However, lack of credit is usually a blessing, as most people are mixing my writings with misinformation.
Originally Posted by
Robbie Tunes
...That being said, if T-Mar and A. Winthrop really told me to pay that for a bike, I probably would.
Heh, Heh. Do I have a bicycle for you!

