LOL Looks like I ruffled a few feathers there. I'm not going to stoop down to the level of Thiamine's prose, because he'll only beat me with experience I think. Now Thylamine, you said we didn't need a thread for this... then WHY ARE YOU PARTICIPATING IN IT???

I'm referring to back in the mid to late 80's, there were criterium-specific geometries available. They were somewhere between a road and a track frame.

Now what we all need to distinguish here, is between a normal discussion, and a framebuilder who is getting all defensive about HIS personal framebuilding philosophy. Just because YOU decide to impose YOUR philosophy on your customers, and you intimidate them with your experience, doesn't mean you can just manhandle your way around here and intimidate everyone by flaunting your closed-minded experience at us. A little less arrogance and a little more civility and open-mindedness might do you good, and make this a more pleasant place.

Now if we could get back on topic here...

BTW, I'm supposed to go see one of these vintage bikes and take measurements... I'll keep you posted as to how it goes.

Cheers!