Originally Posted by dogbreathpnw
My sympathy. I have a similar problem near where I live. Even though the parallel streets in your case look to be quieter, the issues involved with stop signs (and/or no traffic lights) probably more than offset their advantages, since most of the risk to cyclists from motorists is at intersections.
I agree with your approach, which is to ride far enough away from the curb that the unconscious risk-benefit analysis by the motorist morphs from "pass cyclist closely and get there faster" to "risk collision with a lane change or wait until it's safe."
In Oregon we have an aggressive passing law; on a street like this a motorist would be required to leave enough room so that--if a cyclist were to fall--his vehicle would completely miss the cyclist. Since there are multiple lanes in your direction of travel, an Oregon driver is effectively expected to cede the entire lane to you.
I'm not sure what the issue is in California. Just be safe.
Yeah we definitely have the same situation. An outside lane slightly wider than a standard lane but not wide enough to safely share side by side, especially with full size pick up trucks/SUVs and larger commercial vehicles. Here's another example:
Click here to navigate via Google Maps street view
This one is actually a signed Class III bike route. Speed limit is 40mph. Notice the gratuitous use of Bott's dots and the heavy pavement damage in the right tire track in the right lane due to the large number of heavy trucks that use this road. The right lane is again slightly wider than the left lane, providing the illusion to motorists that I should be in the gutter to allow them to pass in the same lane even though there's not enough room. If I do ride on this road it's usually between the tire tracks since that's the only part of the lane with pavement in good enough shape to ride a bike on. When I first started riding I saw a bike route map and saw this street was part of it...scared the hell out of me when I was new, and I'd still rather not ride it now if I can find an alternate route.
Here's the California law
21750. The driver of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle or a bicycle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left at a safe distance without interfering with the safe operation of the overtaken vehicle or bicycle, subject to the limitations and exceptions hereinafter stated.
Seems pretty vague to me. Pretty much a "no harm no foul" law...no recourse if I don't get hit since the motorist could argue they didn't "interfere with the safe operation" of my vehicle, but if I did get hit by somebody that was passing me they'd probably have to have been violating this law.
I guess the law would vary based on the police officer's definition of "safe distance." Since violation of this law is only an infraction it would have to be committed in a peace officer's presence for any action to be taken, and even then the penalty would only be a fine unless the driver did something stupid like refuse to sign the ticket, lol.
Originally Posted by -=Łem in Pa=-
Hmmmmm.......not one person on the sidewalks in the foto or Streetview option
I looked at. The answer is obvious
If you're suggesting riding on the sidewalk that would be a bad idea considering the number of driveways and the fact that it's illegal. Also from a motorist's point of view every close call I can remember having where I almost hit a bike involved me exiting a driveway in a motor vehicle and the cyclist riding on the sidewalk in front of my bumper, just like in paragraph 7 of my letter to the city.
Originally Posted by MSPD
Is it an illusion or is the right lane much wider than the left? To my eye, it looks like you could be in the dark gray section (not in the gutter) and vehicles would generally still have room to safely pass with 3+ feet to spare? Or they would have to slow up a bit to wait for an opportunity to pass.
Either way, from the looks of it, I would position myself there. If this road was in my area (Minneapolis suburbs, which I know is different from most places) and I was riding between right tire track and gutter, I don't think there would be a problem at all. I guess I'm in the minority -- taking the lane here doesn't look necessary to safely coexist with motorized vehicles just from the photos.
Well I wouldn't say the right lane is "much" wider but it is a couple of feet wider. I've been wanting to go measure it one of these nights I'm awake at 3am and nobody's on the road to see exactly how wide that right lane is. A couple of other states "take the lane" laws specify 14 feet as the widest lane that a cyclist can legally ride in the middle of. California just says the cyclist can take the lane when it would be unsafe for the cyclist and a motor vehicle to be operated side by side within the lane.
I don't think there would be space for a car to give a cyclist a full 3 feet if the cyclist were riding in that section between the right tire track and the gutter. When the cyclist is physically in the gutter (and I mean when their tire is on concrete, not asphalt) people will usually drive by in the same lane with some semblance of clearance, but there's no margin for error. I cringe every time I see this happen picturing the cyclist making a slight error or having to swerve to avoid something and getting run over by the motorist trying to share the lane with them. When I'm driving my truck (a Ford Ranger...fairly skinny as far as trucks go) even if the cyclist is in the gutter I'll change lanes to pass since I am always picturing worst case scenarios and I like to leave enough space for the situation mentioned by dogbreathpnw.
Also that darker strip between the right tire track and the gutter is older pavement. I haven't tried riding on it so I don't know how rough it is, but it's obvious the last time the road was re-paved they just re-paved the high traffic portion of the lane and didn't put fresh pavement all the way to the gutter pan. There's a small rough lip between the right tire track and the gutter pan (closer to the tire track) where a cyclist can see the new/old pavement transition, but a motorist could easily fail to see.