fair enough.

I still think phils are kind of overhyped as as being bombproof. How often have do people break hub flanges? I've seen two, both as a result of overtensioned spokes+ a crash. Back when they introduced sealed bearing stuff they probably were better than the competition, but the competition has come a long way.

That said, I have an old phil 6 speed hub, the kind with aluminum flanges that are threaded and bonded onto a steel body, and it still rolls pretty well. I'd like to build a phil wheelset when I have some $$$ and a decent frame to put them on, but thats because they are pretty.