Old 12-19-08 | 11:43 AM
  #12  
TandemGeek's Avatar
TandemGeek
hors category
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,231
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by uspspro
Are the head tube angles the same for the Co-motions and Santana's?
For the most part, yes... along with 73* seat tubes. There was a time when Co-Motion was using 72.5 head tubes on its smallest models and 74 degree head tubes on its largest models of the tri-lateral Java & Double Espresso tandem models in the late 90's and I'm not exactly sure what they used on the models that pre-date the Speedster. But I'm pretty sure Santana has been using 73* for a pretty long time.

Originally Posted by uspspro
Santana has no old geometry specs available
They've never been all that forthcoming with those numbers because, frankly, in talking with Bill it really shouldn't matter to the average consumer and, well, I tend to agree. Again, a frame designer / builder balances tubing selection and geometries to achieve the ride characteristics they are shooting for. Therefore, it's very hard to make too many assumptions about how different bikes will handle by simply comparing things like geometry numbers. They're really red herrings in many respects because, as already suggested, you can't make a Santana "feel" like a Co-Motion by simply sticking a 50mm or 45mm fork on it anymore than a Co-Motion will feel like a Santana if you stick a 55mm fork on it.

However, just to indulge your curiousity a little bit, you can find a write up on the '96 Santana Sovereign at the Tandem & Family Cycling Magazine's website at the following link, along with a few others where geometry is usually provided: http://www.tandemmag.com/roadtest/


Originally Posted by uspspro
If the HT angles are the same, then wouldn't the handling would be similar to all those few year old Co-motions spec'd with Wound-up forks?.
See above. Again, the steering geometry has to play nice with the frame. While you can pretty well assume what will happen to the steering characteristics by changing fork rake, what you can't really account for is how the whole package will handle once all is said and done and how well you'll like that.

Again, it's pretty easy to find teams riding tandems that aren't a good fit for their riding styles. Things to look for are teams on Co-Motions or other tandems with short rake / long steering trail who can't hold a straight line to save their lives, particularly when climbing. If you ride their wheel for a while you can actually watch the front wheel and the captain's arms twitch with each pedal stroke. Conversely, you'll find folks who ride stock Santana, Burley, Trek (pre-carbon fork models) tandems that will characterize the handling of their tandems as being "like a truck".

Originally Posted by uspspro
I gave a rough measure for the axle-to-crown on the current fork, and it seems to be just shy of 390mm.
That sounds like it's in the ball park. I want to say that it was 395mm for Santana but can't be sure off-hand. Most tandems seem to fall into the 390mm to 400mm range, except for the ones that are sporting True Temper Alpha Q forks with their 374mm (or is it now 376mm?) axle-to-crown dimension.
TandemGeek is offline  
Reply