Yep -- that's why I'm so attracted to the Thorns: well thought out/suitable to their purposes, etc. One final thought: if you've no need for suspension, one bike that does come to mind is the Marin Muirwoods (not the 29er version -- though that too I 'spose if one is so inclined). Anyway, I mention this simply because for very little money you could buy a quality steel frame/fork, then upgrade the (admittedly low end) bits as they wear out. Quite a bit of anecdotal evidence kicking around as to just how good this frame/fork really is for commuting/touring. If I were starting again now, that might well be what I'd do. Far as I know, this will be (09) the last year for this bike; looks to me like next year's will be an alloy frame (I'm extrapolating from the Marin UK website). Just a thought.