thanks for the replies. Unfortunately the salsa ones have bad cro moly so they are under recall (Most of the stores still say they have the Salsa but they are all out of stock. ) and don't really even know what the older ones look like though. I heard that 3ttt used to make a stem with a rise but have yet to see it anywhere. I also need a 26 mm clamp so that rules out the nittos too...