Originally Posted by
aroundoz
But you could still have a longer wheel base w/ the same ST angle by increasing the seat stay length. Hope this isn't a dumb question but what is KOPS?
Isn't bike touring in a way powerful riding? I need all the help I can get and I definitely have more power being more forward on the cranks and my comfort isn't compromised. There is more leverage working against your thighs the further back a person is relative to the cranks.
Their thinking was since I could do a 12 hour day in the saddle on my road bike w/ no pain why make changes just because it's a touring bike? (Talking about bar and saddle placement in relation to the BB, not wheelbase etc...)
I am not convinced that a touring bike needs to have a slacker angle to provide all day comfort. That is more dependent on TT length and HT angle which determines bar placement.
You could get the longer wheelbase by a number of methods, but I think race bikes are designed to have as short a WB as possible. My statement above was that you don`t NEED a steep ST if you have long stays. In other words, it isn`t so much that it`s shallow on touring bikes so much as that its steep on race bikes.
KOPS: Knee Over Pedal Spindle. With the cranks horizontal and feet clipped in, a plumb bob hangs from the patella to the pedal spindle. Not written in stone, but generally thhe starting point for fore/aft saddle placement and as far as I know, that same general idea applies to fit on all diamond frame bikes regardless of the application. (for saddle placement- not bars) My thinking that its the same for all applications is where I might be going wrong- maybe racers and randoneurs and tourers do NOT in fact use the same crank/saddle relationship.
I don`t race and have no intention of starting, but I think there would generally be more power exerted in a day of racing than in a day of touring. When I ride, I`m trying to conserve power as much as possible and speed is of little concern. In a race...
What you say about leverage in relation to saddle position sounds good to me and goes against my idea that most bikes are designed with similar saddle/crank positions. But the advice you got when you ordered points the other way. Hmmm...
Yeah, I think the HT angle is more important to handling characteristics. All the other stuff is pretty much different variations of getting to the same thing.