Bought the 2008 Rival group for a travel bike found that I loved the shifting. (coming from a ex-die hard Campy fan). Then I got a good deal on a 2008 Red Group for my main ride. From rival I would look at the cranks, RD and cassette as things I would change out on the Rival. I haven't ridin' the Force enough to know if I would chose a Red part over Force part.