View Single Post
Old 07-05-09 | 02:41 PM
  #10  
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
Likes: 15
From: Lancaster County, PA

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Originally Posted by gridplan
You really need to issue a warning before posting links like that. Now I have drool all over the keyboard. Beautiful bike. I love everything about it, except maybe the tires.
Hey, I posted an apology on there about the tires. They're what I could afford to stock up on and happened to have on hand.
Those pics were actually tentative ones I took when Hilary was working on his timeline. How ironic in light of this thread that he just today posted his first tentative De Rosa timeline to CR:

"Quite a number of CR members have been aware that I have been working on
a sort of time line for pre-cast lug De Rosas for some time. Many
members have helped by sending pics of their frames and I'd like to take
this opportunity to thank every one who has helped. I am especially
grateful to Jack Bissell's 43bikes De Rosa page.

What I would stress is that what follows is very much work in progress - I
welcome all comments and information that will help to make this a
reliable guide...

I have in particular details on very few De Rosa frames from the late
1970s - something I do not understand...

Hilary Stone, Bristol, British Isles

De Rosa Frames pre-cast lugs

A precise and clear time line for pre-1980 De Rosas I think is virtually
impossible. De Rosa at this time was quite small and the evidence from
the frames suggests that De Rosa used a number of different lugs and
fork crown that overlapped over quite a number of years. Almost no De
Rosa frames from this time have any frame number.

Seatstay Cap Engraving
Team frames frequently have no seatstay cap engraving. Seat stay caps
were also not engraved on the earliest De Rosa frames - my best guess is
that the engraving started in the late 60s - 67 or 68.
The first version has no heart in the O of De Rosa - my present guess is
that this changed around 1973 to the second version. The second version
has the heart in the O of De Rosa and this continued save for a few
exceptions to the early 1990s.
Circa 1976/77 (two frames are known) De Rosa used what appears to be a
solid concave plug with an engraved heart on a few frames.

Lugs
Team frames frequently have no heart cutouts. There seems to be two
broad common types of pressed lug - ones with a short point and ones
with a long point. On present evidence it looks as the two designs were
in use together for several years probably something like 1972?1974. The
long point definitely started before the short point lugs which seemed
to come into use around 1972. And there are some medium point lugs which
seem to be from the mid 70s...
Most frames have heart cutouts in all lugs in the early 70s but there
are a number with short and medium point lugs with only a heart in the
lower head lug or in both head lugs but with no heart cut out in the
seat lug. These seem to date from 1974-6.
Cast lugs were introduced around 1979/80 - the cast lug frames are
easily distingushed from the pressed-lug frames by the extension for the
seat bolt. These cast lugs do not feature heart cutouts.

Fork Crown
Earlier frames seem to use a wide variety of fork crowns - quite a
number around 1972?4 use a Vagner 4-point sloping crown. A 4pt flat
topped cast crown was adopted sometime I think over the period 1973?5.
These normally had a heart engraved in them during the 1970s; team
frames generally were lacking the heart.
Fork tangs were plain on the 1960s frames - they gained three round
holes followed later by V shape slots - the later change probably around
1976.

Bottom Bracket Shell
A shell with six slots and two hearts ? one in the down tube tang and
one in the seat tube tang (behind the BB) was standard for quite a long
period. At some point ? maybe in 1973 a large heart cutout was
introduced on some frames - most had additional heart cutouts in the DT
and ST tangs but some not...
Some later 70s frames used BB shells with four slots rather than six.
When the the cast lugs were introduced, a new cast BB shell was used
with six relieved areas in the shell.

Dropouts
Campag short dropouts definitely indicate a frame built 1975 or later
but it seems that De Rosa may have been slower to adopt the Campag short
dropouts than some other framebuilders.

Other fittings
The earlier chainstay bridges are larger in diameter and with round
flanges formed with the tube. By about 1970 De Rosa used a slightly
smaller diameter round tube with diamond reinforcements. These continued
into the early period of cast lugs.
The earliest bottle cage fittings are short studs - these continued into
the 1970s probably until 1973/4.
Gear cable guides over the top of the BB shell were standard on De Rosas
from the late 1960s.
Brake cable stops/guides (generally three) and DT lever bosses were I
think introduced c1975/6."
Picchio Special is offline  
Reply