As a "sanctimonious Luddite", you ought to be all over this stuff! You kinda lost me though, moving on to fatigue. How did we get there? Beyond that you make a lot of sense. My main interest in framebuilding over the last few years has been how they don't do it. I am getting near to having exhausted that strand and will probably be moving on to more conventional pastures by next summer. People who want to know how it is conventionally done should probably block my posts.