Thanks for the link. That was a wild ride. Wonder if that thread would have gone on for 5 pages if the OP had avoided that upsetting "crit geometry" term, as in, for instance, "Does anyone still build a road bike with steep, nearly track-bike-like angles"? And parts of the discussion remind me of a story about Kris Kristofferson, I think it was, who once told a music business executive, "You don't have 20 years of experience in music. You've had 1 year of experience 20 times."