after looking at what you guys said, i went out and test rode the hardrock, rockhopper, and the trek 4500/4900. the hardrock seemed pretty heavy and bulky and noisy, but you could beat that thing to death. the rockhopper i liked the most because i felt i had control of it, plus the manitou fork. the v-brakes did just fine. i tried a 4500 with discs and it felt similar to the rockhopper, and i can get the 04' 4900 with rock shox pilot c and discs for $430. out of the rockhopper and the 4900 which would you pick and why?