Jaywalk3r

This link was pretty interesting. Be sure to watch the video.

Hypno Toad

OK, then why do police use flashing lights? Why not just a solid light or reflectors? The reason is clear, flashing lights work better at getting people's attention than a solid light. Think about all the applications where flashing lights are used, would they be on school buses, snowplows, tow trucks, rail crosssings, etc if target fixation was the biggest threat, a bigger threat than not being seen?

To the point of target fixation, I had a person experience years ago when the local PD were testing new bright lights on the squad cars. I worked early morning hours and left the house at 3:00 AM. On dark morning, a squad had a driver pulled over and I had a very hard time driving because of the intensity of the lights on the squad car. I understand the issue.

BTW - you can find a shocking number of similar collisions that do not involve flashing lights.

Jaywalk3r

At this point, policy inertia is probably a big factor.

Yes. The video should not be confused with actual data. I would be interested to find research that compares the rate of shoulder collisions with parked cars with no lights and emergency vehicles with flashing lights. I suspect, but do not know, that vehicles with flashing lights are hit more often.

Hypno Toad

I disagree, like I said, flashing lights get attention. But 'flashing' can mean a lot of different things. I have a NiteRider 700 front light that has a flashing setting I refuse to use, it's too bright and intense. But my Serfas USB Silicon light is not very bright and the flash mode is a simple flash (not strobe). Rear lights are the same story. I personally believe in solid lights in the dark and flashing lights in the daylight. Based on my experience both on my bike observing drivers and in my car observing other bikers.

I expect we can agree that this is the "doing it wrong video":

canklecat

The problem with theories such as "target fixation" is the solution to these theoretical problems relies on external factors beyond our control as cyclists. We can't influence "better training" or "pay more attention" in vehicle operators.

I'd agree that the bigger threat to cyclists is not being noticed. Training and experience reinforces the message that flashing lights, particularly red, indicate caution, slowing down to evaluate the intent of the lights (emergency vehicle, traffic regulation, road hazard, etc.) and avoidance of the source of the flashing lights, or compliance with the directions indicated by the lights (stop and look before proceeding, go around a hazard or slower moving vehicle, etc.).

That Utah Highway Patrol video doesn't demonstrate or validate the theory of "target fixation" (which I've Googled for awhile without finding a single credible scientifically valid research study -- it appears to be a popular theory reinforced by reiteration of existing anecdotes). It only demonstrates the well known hazard of stopping along a busy roadside, where inattentive or weary drivers can make mistakes, including failing to pay attention and distinguish between moving and non-moving vehicles. I wouldn't base my decision to use steady or flashing lights or variations of those on that video. I already know riding a bicycle around vehicles is dangerous.

My best choice is to get their attention. My theory is that flashing lights will get their attention, combined with a steady light, with separation between the two, will give drivers some perspective to quickly gauge distance and speed. A single light, steady or flashing, is less likely to give them that perspective. Two or more points of light aid in estimating visual convergence.

Miele Man

That's an excellent video that shows exactly why in many areas/locales strobe ights are ILLEGAL>

There's a HUGE difference between a simple flashing light and a strobe setting.

Cheers

Miele Man

It's you and a few others. VBEG LOL

Even other motor vehicles have lights on the vehicles at night to tell others there's something ahead that should not be hit. Those lights are called TAIL LIGHTS and they're on STEADY not flashing unless the vehicle is turning. Obstacles that are placed in the roadway by work crews also have lights fastened to them or to barriers guarding them and those lights are usually amber and flash.

Cheers

Milton Keynes

And a prime example of overkill. Not only was the strobe light hard to look at in the dark, but it seemed to be far brighter than necessary, or at least not aimed toward the ground as it should be.

Dunbar

I don't see the value in a flashing/strobing front light at night. I turn my front light onto steady once it's dark out. It's really disorienting to oncoming traffic to see even a somewhat bright front flashing light at night. Even my 100 lumen flasher at dusk can blind oncoming cyclists (I've seen them cover their eyes) so I rotate it down as sunset approaches. I get lots of respect from oncoming traffic at night with my Specialized Flux Expert which I run in the winter months. I had a construction worker tell me he thought I was a motorcycle as I approached with the Flux Expert on at night. I think the key is to tailor your lights to the lighting conditions. Anything bright enough to be seen during the day (i.e., strobing at the brightest setting) is going to be way overkill at night.

Jaywalk3r

Why in the world would anyone point their light towards the ground? I understand pointing a headlight at the ground at a spot several seconds ahead, but aiming downward at a point closer than that defeats the purpose of having a "to see" headlight. And "be seen" lights work very poorly when pointed towards the ground. LED emitters are directional, some extremely so. A taillight, for example, has to point towards traffic approaching from behind in order to be easily seen by that traffic, lest it be lost in the visual clutter.

vol

I think using a mininum of 2 flashing taillights are more effective and less annoying than 1, and saves power and increase the lifespan of the lights comparing to lights on steady. It's like something between a flashing taillight and a steady one. It also provides backup in case of one light stops funtioning or drops.

OldTryGuy

I find this interesting since my searching of many state vehicle statues suggest that use of flashing lights on moving vehicles is restricted to emergency vehicles and the use of certain colors, such as blue, is restricted to law enforcement usage only. It can also be illegal to be driving with the emergency flashers on, something often done here in FL during the intense rain downpours.

Since the bicycle is considered to be a vehicle, would not the statues possibly be applied to bicycles, unless an exemption exists? I believe I recently read an article about the exemption being passed in many locals.

KD5NRH

Maybe the land where elderly Alzheimer's patients send their parents to die is different. Most states recommend using the 4-ways when a special hazard or unusual condition exists such as driving considerably slower than the other traffic. That's why garbage trucks (not emergency vehicles) and school buses (also not emergency vehicles) commonly run amber and/or red flashers. In Amish country, it's pretty common for the buggies to run at least one flasher as well.

bobwysiwyg

Have you experienced family members who have had to deal with this disease? Definitely not a subject worthy of jokes.

OldTryGuy

A suggestion to check the regulations for your state/jurisdiction for when the vehicle is "in motion." The 4 way flashers are meant for disabled vehicles at the side of the road when stopped.

Hazard lights in the rain: the law explained to Florida drivers - wptv.com

KD5NRH

Yes, and not being able to find the kitchen added at least five years to her life. When she could only eat what other people brought to her, she went from 320 to 125 pounds. First time since about a year after her marriage that she'd gotten under 250.

Again, you're talking about Florida. Their traffic laws should consist only of "if you can't work a paper ballot, a car is way too complex for you."

Milton Keynes

That's what I was referring to. Pointed down at the ground about 20 feet or so in front of you. Perhaps that cyclist's light would still be way too bright, but looked like he had it pointing straight ahead at driver's eye level.

OldTryGuy

Guess you missed reading my reply wording of "A suggestion to check the regulations for your state/jurisdiction....."

CliffordK

One thing I've noticed is that it is hard for me to ride in a straight line when oncoming cars blind me with their super-bright headlights. Especially if I'm tired. I have to keep myself from veering to the light.

I wonder if light intensity might be an issue with a tendency to drive toward the light. Super-bright taillights? Maybe at night they just have to be bright enough to capture attention without blinding the person behind.

Rollfast

I think that battery drain is a bigger issue, and I got the headlight of my Bell Radius apart finally without cracking it after inserting it the wrong way (it's easy to do, a dumb design). Now, when I managed to figure out WHERE I can manage to firmly attach the generator on my Miller set, we'll be talking!

Rollfast

Red lights, white lights, blue lights, and high intensity at that, usually mounted on the roof in a bar or worked into the windshield area and in the grille, the marker lights flash as well but in a SPECIFIC PATTERN that denotes them as special vehicles in pursuit/in route to an emergency scene.

Those are toadally different and meant to bug you for a reason, my friend!

2manybikes

You tend to go where you look. This super important in things like dirt bikes. Look where you want to go, it also reduces being blinded.

CliffordK

I want to go straight ahead on the bicycle. But if a blinding car is coming, I have to look straight down, directly at the fog line (assuming there is one).

Maybe the issue is worse when there isn't a fog line to follow, so one sees nothing but the blinding bright lights.

Anyway, don't blind cars coming up from behind you

On the other hand, cars are more likely to dim their lights for bikes with bright headlights than they will dim them for ones with dim headlights (and the bike should do the same).

2manybikes

Good point. I find that when I ride on high beam and a car comes into view, I dim the light, and that makes them very happy and they will do the same.

Hypno Toad

I never said it bugged me, and it appears you are quoting me out of context.

I was responding to somebody's post on "target fixation" and the idea that using a flashing bike light will draw cars to your bike like a moth to a flame. My point is that emergency vehicles use flashing lights for safety, because they are better at getting attention than a solid light. And my point, flashing lights are "safer" than any other option, even consider "target fixation". And the flashing light examples go way beyond police cars... tow trucks, school buses, snow plows, garbage trucks, construction vehicles & signs, etc

But I'll give you cute-points for "toadally different"