Counter-intuitive Cyclist Death Data by State
#26
Standard Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,272
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked 940 Times
in
490 Posts
California and Florida have more people per square mile than any other state. That's the reason, I think. Up here in Maine, I can ride for miles and not see a house..., or a car.
__________________
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.
Unless you climb the rungs strategically, you’re not going to build the muscle you need to stay at the top.
#27
Senior Member
"As far as I'm concerned, causes 2-5 are all rider error. My sister-in-law went down"
So just because your sister fell over a root, you conclude that being struck by a vehicle and being in a collision are rider errors?
Let's look at two real life examples:
US:low bicycle-motorvehicle ratio- high rate of fatalities.
Denmark:high bicycle motor-vehicle ratio - low rate of fatalities. Those cyclists aren't bumping into each other as often as you'd think.
So just because your sister fell over a root, you conclude that being struck by a vehicle and being in a collision are rider errors?
Let's look at two real life examples:
US:low bicycle-motorvehicle ratio- high rate of fatalities.
Denmark:high bicycle motor-vehicle ratio - low rate of fatalities. Those cyclists aren't bumping into each other as often as you'd think.
#28
Non omnino gravis
"As far as I'm concerned, causes 2-5 are all rider error. My sister-in-law went down"
So just because your sister fell over a root, you conclude that being struck by a vehicle and being in a collision are rider errors?
Let's look at two real life examples:
US:low bicycle-motorvehicle ratio- high rate of fatalities.
Denmark:high bicycle motor-vehicle ratio - low rate of fatalities. Those cyclists aren't bumping into each other as often as you'd think.
So just because your sister fell over a root, you conclude that being struck by a vehicle and being in a collision are rider errors?
Let's look at two real life examples:
US:low bicycle-motorvehicle ratio- high rate of fatalities.
Denmark:high bicycle motor-vehicle ratio - low rate of fatalities. Those cyclists aren't bumping into each other as often as you'd think.
Further, anyone who tries to use Denmark, the Netherlands, etc. as compare/contrast subjects needs to reevaluate their thinking. Most of the riders over there are riding single-speed citybikes on well developed cycling infrastructures... at about 9mph. The US will never have any sort of infrastructure like that, simply due to size, and this nation's continuing obsession with the automobile. Let's not ignore the fact that Denmark and the Netherlands will fit comfortably together... inside the state of Indiana (the 38th largest state.)
No one ever brings up Germany in these "Europe is a cycling paradise" examples. Because in statistically comparable categories, they run roughly parallel with the US.
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: LaPorte, IN
Posts: 625
Bikes: 2013 Raleigh Revenio 2015 Giant AnyRoad (stolen)2016 Giant Escape 1
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Because if you get shot with a gun and die, you were killed by a gun. Bicycle-related deaths are just that-- bicycle related.
Leading Six Causes of Bicycle-Related Deaths
Struck by vehicle 29%
Fell off bike 17%
Roadway/path conditions 13%
Rider error 13%
Crash/collision 7%
Dog ran out 4%
Of the total fatalities, 20% occurred between 6pm and 9pm, and another roughly 20% were legally drunk (what overlap between the two I don't know.)
As far as I'm concerned, causes 2-5 are all rider error. My sister-in-law went down (not fatally, but a couple of fractured vertebrae) where a root has wedged up the pavement on the bike trail-- in a spot she's probably ridden over a hundred times. She managed to hit all 4 of those causes in one fell swoop.
Leading Six Causes of Bicycle-Related Deaths
Struck by vehicle 29%
Fell off bike 17%
Roadway/path conditions 13%
Rider error 13%
Crash/collision 7%
Dog ran out 4%
Of the total fatalities, 20% occurred between 6pm and 9pm, and another roughly 20% were legally drunk (what overlap between the two I don't know.)
As far as I'm concerned, causes 2-5 are all rider error. My sister-in-law went down (not fatally, but a couple of fractured vertebrae) where a root has wedged up the pavement on the bike trail-- in a spot she's probably ridden over a hundred times. She managed to hit all 4 of those causes in one fell swoop.
Following up, if you had to attribute the crash to just one factor, what would it be? You do not think the study would check off one crash into four different categories, do you?
#31
Non omnino gravis
She's off the bike until 2017, and this happened in July-- been in one of those back brace things for almost 3 months. I would consider it rider error, because like I said before, it's a spot she (and everyone who has ridden that trail) has been over hundreds of times. She even said afterward, "I just wasn't thinking." It became a perfect storm of causes 2-5: a root lift she forgot about washed out her front wheel, so she bounced off of a chain link fence and fell off the bike.
This doesn't wholly forgive the poor maintenance level on the river trail-- those rifts are getting worse every day, and there's about half a dozen of them that I bunny-hop over in a ~3 mile stretch. At least they do bulldoze the muck off of it fairly quickly after the rains.
This doesn't wholly forgive the poor maintenance level on the river trail-- those rifts are getting worse every day, and there's about half a dozen of them that I bunny-hop over in a ~3 mile stretch. At least they do bulldoze the muck off of it fairly quickly after the rains.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18378 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
When looking at a per capita basis, the more bicycles on the road, the more that will die.
So, I would think Florida would be a cycling paradise. Flat roads. Sun. Good Weather. But, it also has a lot of older drivers. However, just basic per capita info is meaningless. Better to look at per cyclecommuter, avid cyclist,or estimated miles ridden.
Oregon also gets a lot of cycle commuting... and is thus ranked poorly due in a large part to the increased exposure of the bikes.
Does anybody in Maine actually own a bicycle?
So, I would think Florida would be a cycling paradise. Flat roads. Sun. Good Weather. But, it also has a lot of older drivers. However, just basic per capita info is meaningless. Better to look at per cyclecommuter, avid cyclist,or estimated miles ridden.
Oregon also gets a lot of cycle commuting... and is thus ranked poorly due in a large part to the increased exposure of the bikes.
Does anybody in Maine actually own a bicycle?
#33
OMC
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times
in
49 Posts
It would be interesting to see the data further broken down by urban/suburban/rural occurrences. My guess, unsupported by data, is that the majority of the deaths occur in urban areas due to both traffic and population density.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,207
Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3640 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times
in
51 Posts
As to the actual data, nothing too surprising. As others have mentioned, states with more population, more condensed population areas, and more traffic are deadlier. If I've got ten cars streaming past me a minute in Michigan, I'm just that much more at risk than ten an hour in Montana.
#35
Senior Member
Also, the more robust the cycling culture of an area the more cyclist miles are ridden, and a greater exposure and risk. The is an offset for more cyclists making more familiar drivers but it seems to me that in many cases familiarity breeds contempt.
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: DFW
Posts: 4,126
Bikes: Steel 1x's
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Texas:
Miles of roads: 675,580
Population: 26,448,193
More roads, less people. I guess that contributes to it being much farther down on the list.
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,065
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1217 Post(s)
Liked 187 Times
in
118 Posts
I found the same stats at the site below but it's for injuries, not deaths. I'd be very surprised if 28 people (700 x 4%) were killed due to bicycle collisions with a dog in a one year span.
Pedestrian & Bicycle Information Center
Digging a little further and the stats are from this NHTSA survey:
2012 National Survey of Bicyclist and Pedestrian Attitudes and Behavior | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
What's interesting is that only half (51%) the respondents rode "at least once a week" in the past year. The rest are listed below:
At least once a month: 25%
At least once in the summer: 18%
Never: 6%
All above from Pg. 7 of the full report.
Length of ride is another telling stat but I won't spoil it for the curious. I highly recommend at least flipping through and looking at the charts and graphs.
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
And IMO, cause #1 can very well be the riders fault as well, as much as we like to pretend cyclists never are in the wrong.
As to the actual data, nothing too surprising. As others have mentioned, states with more population, more condensed population areas, and more traffic are deadlier. If I've got ten cars streaming past me a minute in Michigan, I'm just that much more at risk than ten an hour in Montana.
As to the actual data, nothing too surprising. As others have mentioned, states with more population, more condensed population areas, and more traffic are deadlier. If I've got ten cars streaming past me a minute in Michigan, I'm just that much more at risk than ten an hour in Montana.
Auto accidents are much more likely to be fatal in rural areas, in part because an injury incurred there is twice as likely to be fatal. I suspect that some of the reasons why (which aren't completely nailed down yet) would also pertain to auto-bicycle crashes. Crashes might even be less likely, but when you have one it's more likely to be fatal.
Relating fatalities to safety makes me uneasy. For one thing, there are only around 700 or so fatalities per year, a number which is too small for reliable analysis, and rare enough that it begs the question of how much we should do to reduce that risk. Compare that to cycling-related ER visits: 480,000 per year. It seems to me that if we want to look at how safe or dangerous cycling is, looking at fatalities alone is certain to yield the wrong answers.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,724
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5791 Post(s)
Liked 2,581 Times
in
1,431 Posts
Relating fatalities to safety makes me uneasy. For one thing, there are only around 700 or so fatalities per year, a number which is too small for reliable analysis, and rare enough that it begs the question of how much we should do to reduce that risk. Compare that to cycling-related ER visits: 480,000 per year. It seems to me that if we want to look at how safe or dangerous cycling is, looking at fatalities alone is certain to yield the wrong answers.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times
in
6,054 Posts
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18378 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
Counter-intuitively, not necessarily! One third of the fatalities occur in rural areas, two thirds in urban (FARS data for 2014). Since there are a lot more cyclists in urban areas, it leads me to believe that cycling on rural roads has a greater risk of a fatal accident.
Auto accidents are much more likely to be fatal in rural areas, in part because an injury incurred there is twice as likely to be fatal. I suspect that some of the reasons why (which aren't completely nailed down yet) would also pertain to auto-bicycle crashes. Crashes might even be less likely, but when you have one it's more likely to be fatal.
Relating fatalities to safety makes me uneasy. For one thing, there are only around 700 or so fatalities per year, a number which is too small for reliable analysis, and rare enough that it begs the question of how much we should do to reduce that risk. Compare that to cycling-related ER visits: 480,000 per year. It seems to me that if we want to look at how safe or dangerous cycling is, looking at fatalities alone is certain to yield the wrong answers.
Auto accidents are much more likely to be fatal in rural areas, in part because an injury incurred there is twice as likely to be fatal. I suspect that some of the reasons why (which aren't completely nailed down yet) would also pertain to auto-bicycle crashes. Crashes might even be less likely, but when you have one it's more likely to be fatal.
Relating fatalities to safety makes me uneasy. For one thing, there are only around 700 or so fatalities per year, a number which is too small for reliable analysis, and rare enough that it begs the question of how much we should do to reduce that risk. Compare that to cycling-related ER visits: 480,000 per year. It seems to me that if we want to look at how safe or dangerous cycling is, looking at fatalities alone is certain to yield the wrong answers.
Urban problems like bumping into a rider on a sidewalk while pulling out of a driveway may be common, but happens at low speed.
On the other hand, rear-ending a person at 60 MPH is at a much greater risk.
One also has urban riders heading out to rural areas to ride, as well as rural riders heading into the city. Which is greater? Perhaps those long-distance riders are the ones putting themselves into harm's way. Certainly they spend a lot more time on the road than the urban bicycle shoppers.
#42
Senior Member
California will always be up at the top for cyclist deaths-- we have more roads, more cars, more bikes, more people, and very little weather. Considering that about 10% of the entire US lives in California, we do okay. Meanwhile, heart disease kills about 600,000 a year while around 700 people die while cycling... so I'll take my chances on the bike.
Interesting sidenote, about 20% of people killed on a bike are either killed by a drunk, or drunk themselves.
Interesting sidenote, about 20% of people killed on a bike are either killed by a drunk, or drunk themselves.
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
I'm pretty sure that Google knows, or would know if they cared to. Anyone with location services enabled on their Android phone (just about all of them) has their movements tracked and recorded by default. When I've looked at the history page, Google already has trips tagged as bike rides, with a fair degree of accuracy. For awhile Google was popping up an alert from my system tray for my commute home at about the time I'd leave, complete with how long Google expected it to take and a map of my route. Even though I've never told Google about any of that. I have no doubt that Google can figure out whether my phone is on a bike, in a car, or with me when I'm walking, and has a database record of every time I leave out the front gate. If it's accurate for me, they could do it for anyone who carries a phone.
They're just hanging onto that data experimentally, but it would be great to use it to get a better real world picture of cyclist movements and that information would be outstanding to normalize accident and injury data. I happen to have access to the processing power to analyze it, regardless of how much data it is. I bet I could pinpoint individual accidents. I'd do it for fun, and my bosses would let me. Anyone know an exec at Google?
#44
Senior Member
When looking at a per capita basis, the more bicycles on the road, the more that will die.
So, I would think Florida would be a cycling paradise. Flat roads. Sun. Good Weather. But, it also has a lot of older drivers. However, just basic per capita info is meaningless. Better to look at per cyclecommuter, avid cyclist,or estimated miles ridden.
Oregon also gets a lot of cycle commuting... and is thus ranked poorly due in a large part to the increased exposure of the bikes.
Does anybody in Maine actually own a bicycle?
So, I would think Florida would be a cycling paradise. Flat roads. Sun. Good Weather. But, it also has a lot of older drivers. However, just basic per capita info is meaningless. Better to look at per cyclecommuter, avid cyclist,or estimated miles ridden.
Oregon also gets a lot of cycle commuting... and is thus ranked poorly due in a large part to the increased exposure of the bikes.
Does anybody in Maine actually own a bicycle?
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
Yes...
Urban problems like bumping into a rider on a sidewalk while pulling out of a driveway may be common, but happens at low speed.
On the other hand, rear-ending a person at 60 MPH is at a much greater risk.
One also has urban riders heading out to rural areas to ride, as well as rural riders heading into the city. Which is greater? Perhaps those long-distance riders are the ones putting themselves into harm's way. Certainly they spend a lot more time on the road than the urban bicycle shoppers.
Urban problems like bumping into a rider on a sidewalk while pulling out of a driveway may be common, but happens at low speed.
On the other hand, rear-ending a person at 60 MPH is at a much greater risk.
One also has urban riders heading out to rural areas to ride, as well as rural riders heading into the city. Which is greater? Perhaps those long-distance riders are the ones putting themselves into harm's way. Certainly they spend a lot more time on the road than the urban bicycle shoppers.
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times
in
6,054 Posts
I haven't seen it auto-tag my cycling. S Health tries to do that and does a bad job, so I'd be skeptical that my phone can do it. But it sounds like it's working for you.
I'd really love to see more of this kind of data find its way into planning decisions when it comes to infrastructure.
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18378 Post(s)
Liked 4,512 Times
in
3,354 Posts
I did make it to Florida once, but not Maine. But at that time I flew into Orlando, and rented a car, perhaps driving in a 50 or 100 mile range from Orlando. It was interesting seeing the stark difference between the coast and inland just a few miles. But, I have heard that Florida does represent a huge diversity of populations. Old people retiring at their beach houses is just a small part of it.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 1,396
Bikes: 89 Paramount OS 84 Fuji Touring Series III New! 2013 Focus Izalco Ergoride
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 74 Times
in
54 Posts
I went to the NHTSA FARS site to try to get a handle on how the data was collected, but couldn't really find anything. So I'm not too sure how much faith to put in the data.
But I would want to know more about the "type" of cycling engaged in at time of accident. My uninformed impression is that most fatals here are transportation cyclists after dark.
As far as Florida is concerned, I think the "old people who can't drive" is a myth. Yes there are some of these but in recent years seem to be vastly outnumbered by (Florida back-woods)-types in pickups. (And this is in traditionally "oldster" areas specifically gulf coast Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater). Mainly due I think to fact that after the housing crisis you could pick up a 2-bed detached house for $30k for example.
scott s.
.
But I would want to know more about the "type" of cycling engaged in at time of accident. My uninformed impression is that most fatals here are transportation cyclists after dark.
As far as Florida is concerned, I think the "old people who can't drive" is a myth. Yes there are some of these but in recent years seem to be vastly outnumbered by (Florida back-woods)-types in pickups. (And this is in traditionally "oldster" areas specifically gulf coast Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater). Mainly due I think to fact that after the housing crisis you could pick up a 2-bed detached house for $30k for example.
scott s.
.
#49
Senior Member
"5.7 cyclist deaths per million residents" makes no sense. Those among the "million" who didn't ride bikes should not factor in the stats. Different states have different % of people who don't ride bikes. A state where only 0.1% ride bikes, the death rate can't be high even if all the cyclists there died, compared to a state where 99% ride and only a small % died.
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,491
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7652 Post(s)
Liked 3,478 Times
in
1,836 Posts
I met some Very civic-minded drivers on the roads of Greater Orlando.