Gee, I'm so glad you found alternate routes... those may not exist for all of us.

In fact where I lived until recently, there were 3 freeways that motorists could use, and only 1 surface road that a cyclist could use. Given that situation, who is best suited for finding "alternate routes?"

Yes I agree totally, that's why I ride where there is no traffic, and never on main roads. But if you want to ride road and sit in the middle of it, then you're really asking for trouble.

Fantastic post!

Like you I do my level best to stay away from traffic. When I do ride in traffic I employ a cocktail of risk mitigation strategies, none of which involve militantly taking the lane. My experience has shown me there are times to be out in the lane. If I am out in the lane and someone is behind me I am looking for ways to help them around me. I hope nothing I typed indicated that I am a lane hog or advocate it.

If I am on a lightly traveled narrow rural roadway, I will very likely take a center lane position. When a vehicle is approaching from the rear and while they are still well back I may do an in lane weave. Nothing drastic. Just enough to make me more conspicuous. My belief is that this is a better way to be seen than crowding the fog line. Then I look over my shoulder to let them know I know they are there. When I am as confident as I am going to get that they see me, I start easing my way over to the right wheel track. This is normally about the time they start moving left to come around. All those who pass courteously get a friendly wave. While there really is no value to them in my moving right, I think it does give them the impression I am being cooperative. It also gives me a little more room.

That's just one of many scenarios that play out. There are an almost endless list of situations and what ifs we can get into. I walked through that one to tie into my earlier post where we were talking about the risk of being hit from behind and why I may be out in the lane at certain times.

Should walking shoes come with that warning too?

(I was going to provide a handy link, but apparently I'm not allowed to on this forum; 6,000 pedestrians were killed by cars in 2016.)

This, agree 100%. There's an old cliche; "you're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic". The book Happy City had an interesting breakdown of how much space a pedestrian, cyclist, bus [per passenger], and single occupant car take up both when they're stopped and when they're moving.

And 30,000 drivers and passengers were killed by cars annually.

https://journalistsresource.org/studies/environment/transportation/comparing-fatality-risks-united-states-transportation-across-modes-time#

Why is bad driving an acceptable norm?

I often take the lane riding in traffic as a safety practice. But I never do it militantly. Those guys annoy me.

Because you are so new, BFs probably thinks you are trying to spam us. Did you get an odd message when you tried to post? If so, your post with the link is likely waiting for a MOD to approve it.

No you're not. it's a policy to prevent noob trolls from cluttering the forum with rubbish.

Yet your still allowed to be a noob troll.

What about all the riding in the middle of the lane non-incidents that aren't even worthy of video? Will you laugh at them too? Serious question, since getting plowed over or clipped in the middle of the lane is quite rare.

^^^Valid point, but one that someone with irrational fear from the rear will quickly dismiss.

Agreed, and I ride in much the same manner. My default is somewhere near center or right tire track. Glide right when safe and convenient to do so. Hold the lane when it is not.

How many cyclists actually "militantly take the lane"? (as in NEVER move aside for traffic) Discounting large groups of racer types, I know I've certainly not seen even one. Also, can anyone claim the rider in the opening video does so, based only on a 20 second clip? Of course not. But oh the outrage, from some motorists and even some cyclists, for someone riding in the lane for even a few seconds, in a safe and legal manner. It's silly.

Keep it civil, please.

Yes, you are new. I forget what the minimum # of posts is, 10? I'll have to check.

Checked and it is 10. Quick tip to get 10. Go to http://www.bikeforums.net/introductions/ and welcome new people. Besides getting to 10 quick, you'll be spreading good vibes. ;)

There is nowhere near enough context in the original video to make a determination of whether or not the rider was reasonable. The little context given in the clip is a double solid white line. I assume that is a no passing zone. If that is the case and the road is too narrow for the van to safely share with the cyclist, then I can understand the cyclist holding the lane until clear of the no passing zone.

It's a bit frightening to read the comments following the article and look at the like and dislikes on each comment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard (Post 19598207)

Like you I do my level best to stay away from traffic. When I do ride in traffic I employ a cocktail of risk mitigation strategies, none of which involve militantly taking the lane. My experience has shown me there are times to be out in the lane.If I am out in the lane and someone is behind me I am looking for ways to help them around me. I hope nothing I typed indicated that I am a lane hog or advocate it.

If I am on a lightly traveled narrow rural roadway, I will very likely take a center lane position. When a vehicle is approaching from the rear and while they are still well back I may do an in lane weave. Nothing drastic. Just enough to make me more conspicuous. My belief is that this is a better way to be seen than crowding the fog line.

Then I look over my shoulder to let them know I know they are there. When I am as confident as I am going to get that they see me, I start easing my way over to the right wheel track. This is normally about the time they start moving left to come around. All those who pass courteously get a friendly wave. While there really is no value to them in my moving right, I think it does give them the impression I am being cooperative. It also gives me a little more room.

That's just one of many scenarios that play out. There are an almost endless list of situations and what ifs we can get into. I walked through that one to tie into my earlier post where we were talking about the risk of being hit from behind and why I may be out in the lane at certain times.

---

I was intrigued by your turn of phase, “a cocktail of risk mitigation strategies,” because that sounds similar to my survival strategy honed over four decades of a cycling lifestyle. FYA, I recently posted to this current thread:Regarding the question of taking the lane, I’ve always felt it is a question of pragmatism,though I probably too obsequiously favor keeping the drivers happy by staying FRAP. Recently I posted on this thread:
My usual routes are pretty safe…early morning or after rush hour in the evening, in the reverse commuting direction, on residential (though somewhat busy) and light commercial thoroughfares. On a few rides over the past few days I have tried out the more aggressive position, in the right tire track, with very good results. I can easily monitor the driver's responses in my rearview mirror...so far no aggressive maneuvers or honking.

I also like your strategy of gently nudging towards the center, then relenting towards the right. And I always give a wave to the cooperative driver, either before or after their pass.

It's not a serious question at all because you know the answer. People only laugh at what in their opinion is stupidity and watching someone ride up the center of a lane would be as boring as watching paint dry. If you think I am callous just say so. Don't try to construct an argument based on your opinions because your opinions are of value only to those that hold similar ones. In my opinion anyone who wants to hog a vehicular lane on a bicycle is arrogant and stupid and when they get creamed it's hilarious.

I agree, it's a good strategy, and I also always make eye contact if I can, and wave, especially at roundabouts when drivers slow to allow me through. Of course this is impractical if you ride alongside a thousand cars on a busy road, something I would never consider doing. Being in a position of weakness, as all cyclists are in the face of traffic, it just makes sense to engender as much positive attitude from drivers as we can.

I make an effort to be accommodating to others whenever I can because it's good manners, you know, do unto others......., and I believe most people are basically good.

I'm also aware that there's a few out there who have have an irrational hate of cyclists, therefore I'm not going to attempt to please everyone all the time. I'm not going to let those rotten apples dictate what I do, or allow them to turn me into a rotten apple.

Give a little, take a little.

If the lane is not wide enough to safely share then it's not hogging... it's legal.

Although it doesn't really need to be said, when a cyclist riding far right gets creamed I never for a second would find it hilarious.

:thumb: That's what I do too.

And really, no one here knows if the cyclist in the OP video doesn't do the same thing! All we know is he held a narrow lane for a few seconds while there was oncoming traffic, which is prudent and legal. The outrage over this is completely unfounded.

Legal Legal Legal, what a double standard this is. At a stopsign last month I watched 20 odd cyclists race straight through, the rest of the pack only slowed when a car approached but none actually stopped. I'm sick of hearing all this talk about how car drivers need to obey the letter of the law from cylists who flaunt it at every turn.

You want cars to respect you and obey the rules, lead by example.

There was no double standard in his post. He said doing something legal shouldn't draw ire, then you went on to tell a story about bicyclists doing illegal things.

It's not his post obviously, it's the attitude of a large portion of cyclists. Some here seem offended that I said I laughed at the consequences of stupid behavior yet down on the safety subforum cyclists regularly call for the murder or execution of car drivers who kill cyclists in accidents. I cohabit the roads with cars and am prepared to give them right of way in all circumstances because they are so dangerous. Many here though deliberately insist on the letter of the law regardless of the inconvenience it causes to others and the danger to themselves thought they won't obey the law themselves :rolleyes:

That is a double standard and you know it.

Here's a point you seem to be missing and it MAY apply to the rider in the OP. It certainly applies to all cyclists at one point or another. If you were to ask any cycling safety expert if there is ever a time a cyclist should be out in the lane, the answer would be an unequivocal yes. I don't know how the laws work in other countries, but over here the laws generally allow us to take the lane in certain circumstances. The circumstances under which we can take the lane are somewhat subjective.

In a no passing zone on a road too narrow to safely share with a motor vehicle would be one of those times our laws allow us to take the lane. In the subject clip we see about a 12 second shot, most of which shows a cyclist in a no passing zone. If his objective was to dissuade and unsafe pass in the no passing zone, he certainly accomplished that goal. Once the cyclist entered a passing zone, the van driver could have easily made a safe pass, but rather chose to bully the rider.

The point is that the law generally allows cyclists to make lane position determination based on their read of the whole traffic picture. Their read is based on their knowledge, education, experience and possibly training. Here's where our disagreement lies if I understand your position correctly. You would find joy in a motorist plowing down a cyclist who holds the lane in circumstances in which you wouldn't. I would not. Even when I think a cyclist is unreasonably holding the lane, I wouldn't celebrate him getting mowed down by a petulant motorist. You would.

Frankly I am surprised the moderators haven't sent you packing for that remark.

Of course not. No one with an ounce of humanity would.