gregf83 

Perhaps not for you but for myself, safety is the number one priority. I have several lights I go through where having a 'green' with the right of way has very little influence on whether I proceed through the intersection.

I think there was a quote from the Pirates of the Caribbean that is applicable: "The code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules"

Hoopdriver

I've done the same yell on many occasions, and sometimes it results in the driver freaking out as yours did. I have to say though that this sort of driving behaviour is common in all ages of drivers. Right of way means nothing. Expect any driver do do the worst thing possible for your safety and plan an escape route.

Also, get hubby on a bike out in traffic and he'll catch on.

Chris0516

I genuinely wonder who wins the Grand Prize. For being totally clueless about the rights, and safety of cyclists' .....your husband, or the errant driver.

rachel120

Yes, biased, because I think us younger folks have plenty of personal experience with older relatives that shouldn't be on the road but are. I am presuming that since you are on this forum, you also ride a bike and are in great physical and mental shape. However many people your age aren't, and there's no sugar-coating that the probability of an older person being unsafe to drive due to mental disability is far, far more probable than any other age group. A fair number of older people have some sort of mental decline, a decline that just isn't near as likely for the Gen X or younger crowds.

When the auto accident statistics are crunched, yes teens and early 20-somethings have a higher accident rate, but seniors have the second highest accident rates, and the reasons are far different. Teens and 20-somethings do stupid crap. They still have a belief in their own immortality and don't weigh risk very well. Plus they don't have the experience behind the wheel to know things us older folks know. Seniors get into accidents because of failures in mind and body. They can't move a failing body fast enough to react, or the failing senses don't get information to the brain in time, or cognitive declines make them not react appropriately. And while teens and 20-somethings get better over time if they survive and learn, seniors get worse because the body and mind get worse over time.

For purposes of this thread, I don't know if the guy's age was a factor. I don't. It was just one of those details my mind noted when he was THIS CLOSE to me because he didn't even bother to slow down for the stop sign. Maybe he's a freaking idiot and just didn't see me and saw there wasn't another person on that road to yield to. Maybe he's old and his eyesight is failing and that's why he didn't see me. I don't know. If he was stopping because he thought my scream meant he hit me, and if I had realized it and stopped to have a little heart to heart, I would be able to make an educated guess. But I didn't, so I don't know.

rachel120

Definitely the driver. Hands down the driver. I've had three close calls including this one, one I'm certain was deliberate, two clueless, and this was the absolute closest. The other clueless I had plenty of reaction time, only risk to me was a blood vessel popping from the blood pressure ticking upward, and the deliberate I would have been hit if he hadn't changed his mind, but it would have been broadside at low speed. My leg would have ended up trapped between the bike and the side of his car and that would have had the most damage, I'd have been knocked on my side and lots of road rash. But this....I really think I would have been very, very badly hurt or even could have been killed. It would have either been a t-bone into my side or nearly head-on, and since he didn't even slow down for the stop sign it would have been at about him doing 20-25mph and in a position where I would have smashed into his windshield or been knocked down and his tires going over me.

But for my husband, it was just very, very surprising since I know I've said at some point early on when drivers honking still was a new annoyance "What, do they want me to break the law?" So I figured he remembered the part about "break the law".

(And a bit of insight that came to me today as to why motorists drive me nuts when they pass on the right and honk and anything else that isn't appropriate pass-on-the-left-when-safe driving. It's what we learned in kindergarten, stay in line and wait your turn, and people who forget the lessons from kindergarten and want to cut by going on the right or honking at me are basically breaking those rules. It's why I have always hated "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and customers that complain the most are jumped ahead of customers who are quietly patient and therefore cutting in line. It's also why when I'm a pedestrian I'll wait if someone who doesn't notice me violates my right of way, but when I am sure the motorist does see me but is counting on me not challenging him, I'll step out and he has to decide if he wants the premeditation of attempted first degree murder or if he's going to brake, and then I'll walk super-slow while he's stopped and screaming at me. Wait your turn.)

Chris0516

True. The bad drivers outnumber your husband by far.
True, I keep having to remind my family about the law. They think it is so easy. To ride the way they want me to ride.
I agree 100%

Nooner

I'm not sure why you would expect that.
Most folks break laws when driving at one point or another.
See example below.

55murray

Look at it this way- you do indeed have every legal and moral expectation for motorists to obey the law and react appropriately. But on the practical level, that attitude will get you killed eventually. You cannot expect motorists to behave. Ever. My three rules:

1. Assume you are invisible
2. Never think you are safe
3. Have an escape plan at all times

+1

raqball

coominya

What does being careful when you ride through a green have anything to do with blowing stop signs? We all do that, even in the car I do that. If I had a dog in the car it would do that. And why do you assume safety is not the number one priority for me? Is it because I advocate stopping at stop signs where you clearly don't? If you or anyone wants to run red lights and stop signs (in the name of safety) feel free, but don't come here crying when a cop gives you a fine or when a driver abuses you for breaking road laws.

gregf83 

It's simply a question of priorities. I value safety over blind obedience to signs or signals.

Like most people, I tend to go with the flow. If I'm on the highway with a bunch of cars it's generally safest to drive at the same speed as everyone else. I know there are a few drivers who rigidly adhere to the speed limit even when everyone around them is going faster. Similarly, few drivers or cyclists around here come to a complete stop at stop signs. We seem to survive.

I try and apply logic and ride in a reasonable way without jeopardizing safety. For example, if I'm riding in the shoulder coming up to a red light and I need to turn right and the shoulder continues I'll just keep going without stopping as there's no logical or safety related reason to stop. Same thing at a T intersection where it make sense to go straight through. Around here they even end the painted stop lines before the shoulding implying that it's not necessary for cyclists to stop.

mr_bill

If it makes you feel better you can indeed infer that. It wasn't in any way implied however.

In Massachusetts, we are considering adopting what I'll call the Paris Red.

-mr. bill

WNCGoater

Oh all of those are reasonable expectations, even on a bike. But I wouldn't stake my life on it's going to happen. To assume it's going to happen could get you killed regardless if you're driving, walking or riding.

And because of that....

^^This^^^


Personally, I believe we have fallen behind on cycling advocacy. The "Share the Road" campaign was somewhat effective, yet I rarely see new signs going up. Public perception is skewed because they aren't being educated. We should be organized in every county in every state, advocating for public education/information campaigns on a state level, addressing cyclists legal right to be on the road, and a motorist's requirement to recognize and give space. There are laws now in every state IIRC, that categorizes bicycles as vehicles giving them legal right to the lane, but motorists don't seem to know that. In NC, you must give 3' space (which is too close) when passing and yield behind the bike until it's safe to pass...but I doubt the motoring public for the most part, is aware of that. There are other countries in the world where bikes are much more accepted/tolerated....perception.

If we spent half as much energy organizing ourselves and lobbying for public information campaigns on the state level to educate, as we do on internet forums complaining about clueless motorists, we may eventually see a shift in attitudes.

rydabent

However accident stats prove that the teen drivers are by far the most accident prone. Especially these days with smart phones that they cant seem to put down for more than 10 seconds.

NewATBikeComute

Actually, only Alabama, Georgia, Maryland, New Hampshire, and Wyoming make it explicitly illegal, with exceptions for children (most), and in at least some cases can be overruled by local ordinance.


Reference: https://bikeleague.org/sites/default/...iding_Laws.pdf


That said, the first year that I commuted by bicycle (last year), I did a fair amount of sidewalk riding. This year, a lot less.

rachel120

Yes, I don't argue against that. However as teens survive their stupidity they get better, as accident rates drop as the ages get higher....until you get to the senior crowd. They have the second highest accident rate and when seniors are subdivided, the numbers get higher as the age groups get higher.

The teenage and young adult brain is still in development, leading to higher impulsiveness, and they just don't have experience behind the wheel. Where an older person would know to focus on the road, a teen/young adult will think they are focused on the road enough when distracted by technology or passengers. Also in a dicey situation, someone whose been driving for a while will be more cautious and wait where someone without experience would think "I can make it".

But on the other hand old people really do get failing bodies that make reaction difficult (checking a blind spot, moving feet between pedals) and cognitive declines are sneaky, your brain thinks everything is fine when it really isn't, same issue as someone experiencing a hallucination or delusion. So people with cognitive declines can't realize it's time to give up the car keys as the mind is trapped in a perception of reality that doesn't actually match reality. So seniors become more and more dangerous as their bodies and minds age and fall prey to all the parts wearing out.