avole

In France, and in most of Europe, traffic lights go from green to amber to red, thus giving ample time fir road users to stop. Again in France, where many cycle in groups, cyclists are aware of this so the group will stop, or split, when the lights change.

Cyclists are bound by road rules and laws. I, for one, would be lobbying against any insane law defining a group of people as a single entity and thus able to ignore rules which every other road user must obey.

CliffordK

I don't go on a lot of group rides, but...

I've seen groups of say 10 riders in a single cluster go through a light on a single green, regardless if the light changes before the tail of the group gets through before the light changes. And traffic generally waits. It does help with the group dynamics to keep the group together.

Larger groups, of say 20+ riders will usually split and stop at the red lights.

Likewise, if a smaller group is significantly spread out, then the stragglers will get caught at the lights.

A year and a half ago, someone was leading a small group to a park for an organized picnic. Anyway, she just took off like a bat out of hell... So, not wanting to be left hanging on lights, I just hit the speed and closed the gap, and don't think I was hung on any reds.

We have an annual local 5K run called the Butte to Butte that crossed a rail line near the finish. The fast runners would beat the train. Slow runners would miss it. But there was always a group of mid-paced runners that would be stopped ever year.

I think they've since re-routed the finish line, but that train was well known for many years.

Ninety5rpm

Again, it's important to distinguish the kinds of groups we're talking about.

Groups that cruise on flats at 25+ mph by closely drafting each other (and generally keeping up with motor traffic on many roads) are very different from groups that are going under 20 mph with significantly more space between the cyclists.

With sufficient slack space between the cyclists of course the group can split arbitrarily as necessary for a light that turns yellow and red as the group is going through the light. But for a tight/fast group, with highly efficient tight packing for drafting, it's not possible to split like this safely. Where is the group going to split and who decides? And to what end?

Just this morning I was stopped at red light where nobody moved when it turned green. Why? Because a large dump truck from the opposite direction was still moving slowly through the intersection after turning left, so across our path, right in front of us. So we waited a few seconds for it to complete crossing the intersection (it had to stop and readjust - a construction area). It was no big deal. It's also no big deal when others have to wait a few seconds on green as a peloton finishes going through the intersection. It's really not.

Ninety5rpm

Trolley trains also don't split to stop the latter part of the train when the light turns red as they're crossing the intersection. And the cars waiting to cross simply continue to wait, even though they have a green. It's not a big deal, whether it's a train of trolley cars or a train of bicyclists...

AlmostTrick

Agreed, it's not a big deal to most. It's still illegal when groups of cyclists (or motor vehicles) do it though. No thanks, I'll pass.

avole

To make it legal you’d have to define how many people make up a group.

Ninety5rpm

That's an easy one. Two or more.

The harder parts are:

1. How close must they be to each other to be considered part of the same group?
2. If a group runs a stop sign - nobody stops - who gets the ticket?
3. If a group is in a crash after failing to yield, who is faulted?
4. What laws need to be modified, and how, to make it legal?
5. etc.

KD5NRH

And for all vehicles; how many Yugos make up a single unit? A DeVille length worth, or a whole 18 wheeler length?

avole

Yugos? I thought they'd disappeared with the collapse of Yugoslavia, like the Trabant in what was East Germany, unless Volkswagen have resurrected the name as they seem to have bought most ex-soviet car manufacturers. Never heard of a Deville, nor knew it was a measure of length. How many metres are there in one deville?

By the way, bicycle is my man form of transport, but I don't see why laws should be skewed in their favour. If the light changes, and there's amle warning, then the group that has entered the intersection when the lights turn to amber continue, and the rest stop. For a car, the same applies, as it does for a lorry. Theoretically the length of time it takes for the amber to change to red should be enough for any vehicle in the intersection to cross it safely.

Interestingly, in many Asian countries they give a countdown as to how much time remains until the lights are going to change. Perhaps it is an idea worth using elsewhere.

mr_bill

Peak Caddilac de Ville was 1976. 5.86 m and 2,400 kg (2.4 metric ton).

-mr. bill

avole

Thanks. To be truthful I didn't know they still made Cadillacs, nor that there were so many on the road. It's very seldom American cars are seen outside the US. As far as I'm aware, only the Ford Mustang is available new, and sells in miniscule numbers, owing to high price, insurance, and emissions category.