How A Motorist might view us
05-07-18, 02:52 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times
in
171 Posts
Are we presenting a good impression to motorists? I happened across this video on youtube, and think this might be a good discussion starter.
I]https://youtu.be/XEKBI8kIdVI
I]https://youtu.be/XEKBI8kIdVI
Personally, I find any discussions about cycling with motorists futile, especially those exchanged while en route, often with hostility. When off the bike, e.g. at work they are usually pleasant, but vacuous, for example when I’m called a saint. When they complain, it’s often about cyclists riding two or more abreast, no lights, ninjas, etc…valid complaints IMO.
The most antagonistic remarks though that I try to assuage are taunts about what it would do to the driver if they hit me, most often spoken on the Winter when streets are icy or narrowed by snowbanks. I learned my response from a long-ago thread, “When does Hardcore become Stupid?”
The most antagonistic remarks though that I try to assuage are taunts about what it would do to the driver if they hit me, most often spoken on the Winter when streets are icy or narrowed by snowbanks. I learned my response from a long-ago thread, “When does Hardcore become Stupid?”
I've found that most Americans think of bikes in three ways: children's toys, exotic toys for fitness fanatics and transportation of last resort for the impoverished and disadvantaged.
It's socially acceptable for an adult to dress up like a circus acrobat with friends once a week, run around in circles as quickly as possible with no other purpose or destination, but to ride a bike somewhere for a purpose implies some sort of need and is looked upon as an act of desperation.
It's socially acceptable for an adult to dress up like a circus acrobat with friends once a week, run around in circles as quickly as possible with no other purpose or destination, but to ride a bike somewhere for a purpose implies some sort of need and is looked upon as an act of desperation.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
It took me a couple of readings to figure out that the adults who dress up like circus acrobats and run around in circles are joggers. 
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-07-18 at 03:12 PM.
05-07-18, 03:28 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2112 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times
in
443 Posts
This topic is about how “we” are the problem.
So at least two people on bikes in Canada are the problem by refusing to get out of the way of of a person in a car who only wanted to turn right on red. I hope you’ve learned your valuable lesson.
(One of the nicest things about Île de Montréal is no right turn on red. Other nice things are bonjourhi, Zed, and people calling me Beel.)
-mr. bill
So at least two people on bikes in Canada are the problem by refusing to get out of the way of of a person in a car who only wanted to turn right on red. I hope you’ve learned your valuable lesson.
(One of the nicest things about Île de Montréal is no right turn on red. Other nice things are bonjourhi, Zed, and people calling me Beel.)
-mr. bill
05-07-18, 03:35 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,204
Bikes: ...a few.
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times
in
235 Posts
This topic is about how “we” are the problem.
So at least two people on bikes in Canada are the problem by refusing to get out of the way of of a person in a car who only wanted to turn right on red. I hope you’ve learned your valuable lesson.
(One of the nicest things about Île de Montréal is no right turn on red. Other nice things are bonjourhi, Zed, and people calling me Beel.)
-mr. bill
05-07-18, 06:48 PM
#29
Senior Member
Are we presenting a good impression to motorists? I happened across this video on youtube, and think this might be a good discussion starter.
https://youtu.be/XEKBI8kIdVI
https://youtu.be/XEKBI8kIdVI
Just as easy to find "Driver Moron" videos.
05-08-18, 07:12 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,974
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,677 Times
in
827 Posts
Meh, meh, meeeeeh, meh, meh mmmmmmeh. MEH.
05-08-18, 12:05 PM
#32
Senior Member
05-08-18, 12:07 PM
#33
Senior Member
05-08-18, 02:33 PM
#34
Cycle Year Round
OMG, that cyclist in the OP almost killed the poor motorist.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
05-08-18, 04:04 PM
#35
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 920
Bikes: Diamond Back Apex, Mongoose IBOC Aluminum Road Bike, SR road bike
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times
in
116 Posts
05-08-18, 05:51 PM
#36
Senior Member
05-08-18, 06:07 PM
#37
On Holiday
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,014
Bikes: A bunch of old steel bikes
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times
in
12 Posts
This video is just one more of the "Why *** hate *** " clips that are entertaining to those who are *** but not ***. How much time you have to waste on them?
05-09-18, 11:32 AM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947
Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times
in
936 Posts
Last I knew, honking at someone to get out of your way for a right turn on red was a 200 CAD fine?
Impatient or what
Impatient or what
But in the original video, the cyclist ended up where he shouldn't have been, and if I were turning and he just stopped in the middle of the lane I'd give him a quick honk to let him know he needs to get out of the way. Plus I might ask him why he's riding all over the intersection like an idiot and let him know he's making all us cyclists look bad.
05-19-18, 04:35 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697
Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
There are even laws like that in the real world:
Texas Transportation Code 547.501(c) A motor vehicle operator shall use a horn to provide audible warning only when necessary to insure safe operation.
Fine up to $500 (in real money) and you could earn yourself some jail time if you're a real jerk about it. Watched some doofus blasting his horn at an accident scene as if the wrecked (very badly, as in at least one wheel completely off and a couple more folded under) cars were going to move for him. The third time the cop told him to knock it off, he got cuffed and another wrecker called for his car.
Texas Transportation Code 547.501(c) A motor vehicle operator shall use a horn to provide audible warning only when necessary to insure safe operation.
Fine up to $500 (in real money) and you could earn yourself some jail time if you're a real jerk about it. Watched some doofus blasting his horn at an accident scene as if the wrecked (very badly, as in at least one wheel completely off and a couple more folded under) cars were going to move for him. The third time the cop told him to knock it off, he got cuffed and another wrecker called for his car.
05-19-18, 09:42 PM
#41
Senior Member
Don’t include me in this ‘us’ of yours.
I don’t take responsibility for every person on a bicycle. And trying to hold all ‘cyclists’ accountable for the actions of each cyclist is silly
I don’t take responsibility for every person on a bicycle. And trying to hold all ‘cyclists’ accountable for the actions of each cyclist is silly
05-19-18, 10:14 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,491
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7652 Post(s)
Liked 3,477 Times
in
1,836 Posts
For one thing ... look at how we here (cyclists I assume, but posters) talk about "drivers" as though they were an homogeneous class.
It is not unreasonable to assume that drivers look at cyclists the same way ... even more so because there are fewer of us.
So ... while we do not need to live our lives or ride our bikes with this idea in the forefront ... it would be silly not to acknowledge that drivers probably see any cyclist as a representative of "cyclists."
Second ... if a rider is riding badly in traffic ... same as a driver doing the same. And since we can assume that at least sometimes, some drivers look at a cyclist being stupid and think "Stupid bike-riders" as opposed to "stupid person on a bike" then yeah ... I don't take responsibility, but I bear some of the opprobrium. So ... whatever.
05-20-18, 02:22 AM
#43
C*pt*i* Obvious
Double fail!
This motorist has anger management issues, and the cyclist is quite ignorant of traffic rules.
There was no immediate danger to either the cyclist or the motorist, so there was no need for hostility.
Sometimes you really can't fix stupid.
This motorist has anger management issues, and the cyclist is quite ignorant of traffic rules.
There was no immediate danger to either the cyclist or the motorist, so there was no need for hostility.
Sometimes you really can't fix stupid.
05-20-18, 10:59 AM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 2,673
Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1221 Post(s)
Liked 629 Times
in
472 Posts
From the start of the video my eyes were rolling - push button start and gaudy rims spinning on a truck.
That cyclist was dumb as well - why not just go straight across instead of some wacky zig zag? He's running the red anyway. His actions will just get him hit by an inattentive driver looking left, assuming he had continued on right.
People use their horns completely inappropriately, as was this case. A horn is used to gain attention, not signal an opinion. It's my belief that people that honk this way are also people calling the police on people using a bathroom without purchasing anything.
That cyclist was dumb as well - why not just go straight across instead of some wacky zig zag? He's running the red anyway. His actions will just get him hit by an inattentive driver looking left, assuming he had continued on right.
People use their horns completely inappropriately, as was this case. A horn is used to gain attention, not signal an opinion. It's my belief that people that honk this way are also people calling the police on people using a bathroom without purchasing anything.
05-20-18, 09:40 PM
#45
Senior Member
Two sides here.
For one thing ... look at how we here (cyclists I assume, but posters) talk about "drivers" as though they were an homogeneous class.
It is not unreasonable to assume that drivers look at cyclists the same way ... even more so because there are fewer of us.
For one thing ... look at how we here (cyclists I assume, but posters) talk about "drivers" as though they were an homogeneous class.
It is not unreasonable to assume that drivers look at cyclists the same way ... even more so because there are fewer of us.
1) I appreciate people who drive well when they drive well. I don't like drivers who drive poorly. I sometimes make general statements about drivers such as "it is hard for a driver to see you if you are in his/her blind spot". And some times I make statistical statements like "I think most drivers speed most of the time" or, "a recent study shows that drivers break more traffic rules, even if you ignore stop signs". But I try to avoid statements like "drivers are morons" or "drivers should not be allowed to be on the road" or "cyclists are a hazard to society". I understand that we all have a tendency to make group judgments once in a while, but that doesn't make it ok.
2) A big difference is that, unless you are in a place like the Netherlands, cyclists are a minority. And that makes a huge difference. When a diver sees another driver doing something stupid, the tendency is to say "all women are bad drivers" or "all asians are bad drivers" or "all uber drivers are bad drivers" or "all bmw drivers are bad drivers", but never "all drivers are bad drivers". Group prejudices are typically applied to minorities, not to majorities. And that is what I am trying to avoid. Not all cyclists are the same. And simply because there are less cyclists than drivers, it doesn't make it right to treat all cyclists as a homogeneous group.
05-21-18, 10:37 AM
#47
Senior Member
He said “look at how we here” and the OP is about how motorists view “us”. I assume by us the OP meant people who use bicycles. I use bicycles, but I never behave like the person in the video.
I don’t mean to shoot anyone, but I think it is in the best interest of cyclists to reject the validity of that kind of generalizations.
If you look for videos of bad drivers, they are typically called “this specific driver is a moron” if you look for videos of bad cyclists they are called “all cyclists are morons”. That right there is the real problem
05-21-18, 06:58 PM
#48
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 920
Bikes: Diamond Back Apex, Mongoose IBOC Aluminum Road Bike, SR road bike
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times
in
116 Posts
He said “look at how we here” and the OP is about how motorists view “us”. I assume by us the OP meant people who use bicycles. I use bicycles, but I never behave like the person in the video.
I don’t mean to shoot anyone, but I think it is in the best interest of cyclists to reject the validity of that kind of generalizations.
If you look for videos of bad drivers, they are typically called “this specific driver is a moron” if you look for videos of bad cyclists they are called “all cyclists are morons”. That right there is the real problem
Originally Posted by Ballenxj
Are we presenting a good impression to motorists? I happened across this video on youtube, and think this might be a good discussion starter.
05-21-18, 07:18 PM
#49
Senior Member
It is all good @Ballenxj
I think I understand why you posted this. What I keep trying to emphasize is that I dislike the divisive view of thinking of cyclists and motorists as different groups of people. This is the narrative that politicians use for their political purposes, but it is a narrative that creates animosity between people driving cars and people driving bicycles. I much rather think of people as people that choose each day whatever means of transportation they find more convenient.
The mere concept of a cyclist is weird. I do most of my trips by bicycle, and I do long bike rides on weekends, and I participate in triathlons during the summer. But I also walk places, and I also use public transportation, and I also use my wife's SUV on occasions. I am only a cyclists when I am on a bicycle. Other times I am a driver or a pedestrian.
I've seen this video before. The person riding a bicycle in the video is completely on the wrong and doesn't even notice it. But that is not the worst part of the video. The worst part of the video is that the person who posted the video named it "why drivers hate cyclists". And that name is as unhinged as the cyclist in the video.
When you say "Are we presenting a good impression to motorists?" it sounds like it is ok for a person to form an impression of cyclists as a group, based on what individual cyclists do. And I don't think that is acceptable. I am not trying to be belligerent here. I am trying to get a point across: I don't think one should speak of cyclists and drivers as separate groups of people, and much less evaluate each group based on the actions of specific individuals.
I think I understand why you posted this. What I keep trying to emphasize is that I dislike the divisive view of thinking of cyclists and motorists as different groups of people. This is the narrative that politicians use for their political purposes, but it is a narrative that creates animosity between people driving cars and people driving bicycles. I much rather think of people as people that choose each day whatever means of transportation they find more convenient.
The mere concept of a cyclist is weird. I do most of my trips by bicycle, and I do long bike rides on weekends, and I participate in triathlons during the summer. But I also walk places, and I also use public transportation, and I also use my wife's SUV on occasions. I am only a cyclists when I am on a bicycle. Other times I am a driver or a pedestrian.
I've seen this video before. The person riding a bicycle in the video is completely on the wrong and doesn't even notice it. But that is not the worst part of the video. The worst part of the video is that the person who posted the video named it "why drivers hate cyclists". And that name is as unhinged as the cyclist in the video.
When you say "Are we presenting a good impression to motorists?" it sounds like it is ok for a person to form an impression of cyclists as a group, based on what individual cyclists do. And I don't think that is acceptable. I am not trying to be belligerent here. I am trying to get a point across: I don't think one should speak of cyclists and drivers as separate groups of people, and much less evaluate each group based on the actions of specific individuals.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mozad655
Advocacy & Safety
100
06-18-15 09:37 AM
Surfer34
Southern California
16
04-05-12 05:55 PM
