Nightcap

Like Philippe Gilbert's skill? (Sorry...)

I've never seen an e-bike rider going appreciably faster than me, and I'm not a fast rider. I see lots of fast road bike riders, and lots of people without much skill, since the local MUP is a major tourist attraction and every town it goes through has at least two bike rental shops. Since we don't ask neophyte cyclists to be licensed, I don't see a good reason to require it of e-bike riders.

UniChris

This speaks to why you completely fail to realize that there's an issue - apparently you're lucky enough to be in a place where there isn't one.

If you'd seen what typically happens on the streetscape here in NYC, you'd understand why people are upset about the illegal throttle electric motorcycles trying to pass themselves off as bikes.

Conversely, NYC's official bike share is getting some pedal assist models next month for an outer boro trial, and a second docked set for use across a bridge when a key subway section goes down for extended repairs.

Nightcap

I'm quite sure I would, Chris. NYC is hard enough to get around on foot. The closest thing I've got is the folks who tried (and fortunately failed) to have Provincetown consider electric scooters as e-bikes. P'town is a small drinking village with a fishing problem, and it's absolutely mobbed at this time of year.

Daniel4

When ebikes start their own trends and statistics for pedestrian, bicycle and ebike fatalities, licensing should start.

raria

Those of you who say "what problem" have been lucky or under exposed. In popular areas e-bike ridden by inepxerienced riders are a danger to themselves and others. The bike puts them in situations they have little experience in

Exactly

rydabent

But making e-bike riders fork over money for a license will fix everything********************????

UniChris

Not automatically, however

1) It imposes requirements on the vehicles themselves to be register-able, vs. whatever collection of features vs. price someone overseas thinks will make something sell well online. (It's the lack of these safety systems which likely make most of the current illegal fleet ineligible for moped registration)

2) Plates give something to track violations against

3) Operator licenses are something that can be revoked for repeated misdeeds

And again, pragmatically, this seems to be applicable to the throttle versions which are currently illegal to operate at all in many places. It seems like the pedal assist are (for better or worse) generally going to be categorized as ordinary bikes.

In other words, if you'll pretend to pedal on something vaguely human-scale, we'll overlook the weak motor. While if you want to ride a motorcycle, it needs vehicular safety systems and registration.

This is called "compromise"

BarryCW

Thanks for the laugh Nightcap, its been a big day. e-bikes in New Zealand are also getting big in numbers. I imagine I will have one when I'm older and grumpier than I am now. Must say on a couple of occasions on narrow cycle ways in Nelson, I have experienced on my cruising into town after a long ride in the country two frightening experiences involving e-bikes. I see the upright rider in the distance coming towards me, I slow down and move left, no change in momentum or line ahead of the torpedo like cyclist. I reluctantly stop and move over, still no change. An e-bike zooms past at what must be full throttle with a middle aged person staring steadfastly ahead. I know not just e-bikers would do this but whew, that was close. It was particularly scary as both bikes had rear vision mirrors on the end of their handlebars adding extra cms to their width these seemed a little like a chariot with knives attached to wheels in full flight. Then again I may have still been in my long ride zen place or had one gel too many.

badangel

do i need any license in Toronto ?

raria

There is a test of some sort associated with it either written or practical. The purpose would be to evaluate the person's ability to handle the situation the e-bike puts them in.

350htrr

Now... come on people... People NEED to UNDERSTAND the "difference" between an "E-Bike with a throttle" that can be used without pedaling, and go 28MPH with a 750Watt motor, and "E-Assisted" bike that MUST be pedalled to get anywhere, cuts out assist at 20MPH and only has a 350 Watt motor.. How hard is that to work through...???…. The problem here seems to be that people seem to have an agenda to make E-Bikes the same as E-Assisted bikes, for what ever reason... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...

KraneXL

My "agenda" is to keep bikes, bikes. A 100% people powered device. Its like soy milk or almond milk. Neither which is milk because milk comes from cows -- or at least an animal. No matter how you spin it, milk doesn't grow on trees.

Similarly, I don't want anything confusing the bike definition. As long as your bikes+ don't confuse or encroach on that definition or its facilities, I have no issue with them.

SHBR

Not sure how current this info is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws

I agree with the idea that over a certain maximum speed and weight, a license is required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...hina_(Mainland)

Rollfast

Let me know when we become China.

No wait, that would be P&R,

All in a daze work at Arguments & Scandals.

blue192

I ride a scooter style e-bike specifically because it does not require a license. If my government demands a license then I will just get a scooter or moped. I am old and just like the slower pace of 20 mph/32kmh.

KraneXL

Location: Shanghai. So that would be now.

tn_roadie

People for Bikes, which is an industry funded group, is pushing model legislation across the U.S. It defines three classes of e-bikes. Class 1 is a pedal assist up to 20 MPH, Class 2 is throttle up to 20 MPH, and Class 3 is pedal assist to 28 MPH. It clarifies they are to be treated as bicycles and can use all bike infrastructure, on and off street.

People for Bikes

UniChris

That sounds horribly unworkable in a situation where they're more than infrequently present.

Of the three, only the lowest pedal assist has any sense of matching rider capability to machine capability. 20 MPH at the pull of a throttle on bike infrastructure isn't safe, nor is being assisted in getting up to 28.

Electrically assisted bikes should help people get to average bicyclist speeds - not match the fittest. Otherwise it's a motor vehicle and needs to be treated as such, not anything that can be legitimately passed off as a bicycle.

CliffordK

I've got some acquaintances that I'd like to get out on a bike some more, but I've avoided the E-Bikes because I fear they would simply run it in throttle mode, and get no benefit, plus put themselves in danger.

I'd much prefer anything called a "bike (bicycle)" to require pedaling as a primary motive force. Augmenting the pedaling with power is fine. I.E. Electric Assist to be called an E-Bike.

I heard of a group of guys going for a bike tour around France averaging 25+ MPH. Sometimes faster. Shorter days, they rode as high as 35 MPH average.

Aren't those just average cyclist speeds... they did average over the entire rides.

KraneXL

How is the weather?

350htrr

An E-Bike is NOT "necessarily" an E-assist bike that you must pedal to get anywhere... There is/seems to be, a HUGE problem here with definitions... IMO

350htrr

Great,. UN-Fortunately they seem to state/generalize that all are "E-Bikes" and yes they are in a sense, but, wait a moment, some need to be called E-Bikes, some need to be called pedal assist bikes, and some need to be called mopeds... This "generalization of E-bikes" a one name fits all, is a fail. IMO... ,

KraneXL

If you go to the gym and do counterweight pullups the idea is to eventually reduce the counterweight until you can do them all on your own. An E-bike does the opposite. How much effort does it take to pedal an E-bike anyway -- 90%, 70%, 50%, less?

During the moped boom did anybody every pedal one? The problem with E-bikes is that you eventually rely way too much on the motor and less on your muscles. The opposite of exercise. That state of mind increase exponentially as you fatigue.

prathmann

If this were the case, i.e. all three classes treated the same as unpowered bicycles, then there would be no need to distinguish the three classes. If you look at their proposed legislation, they recommend that by default Class 1&2 are allowed on bike paths and MUPs while Class 3 is not although in both cases the local authorities can pass ordinances reversing the default position. They also propose that Class 3 have a minimum age requirement and a MHL.

350htrr

You get to pick the number... IF, you have an E-Assist, with a pressure sensor in the crank or the axel. If you don't then you get the % of assist that the motor puts out on whatever level you have it set to and your input is not considered in any way except for having to rotate the crank, (rotation sensor) you don't actually need to put any "pressure" onto the pedals . Then there is the throttle, you don't even have to pretend to pedal...

On my set up I have 4 levels, level 1=35%, level 2=75%, level 3=150%, level 4=300%, what that means is... When I put in lets say 1lbs or 10lbs of pressure onto the pedals, I will get...
Level 1; 1lbs=0.35lbs of assistance, 10lbs=3.5lbs of assistance up to a max of 6.6lbs of assistance.
Level 2; 1lbs=0.75lbs of assistance, 10lbs=7.5lbs of assistance up to a max of (cant find the number)
Level 3; 1lbs=1.50lbs of assistance, 10lbs=15.0lbs of assistance up to a max of (can't find the number)
Level 4; 1lbs=3.00lbs of assistance, 10lbs=29.5lbs of assistance as that is the max assistance number. I would not get the 30.0lbs...
ALL levels; I MUST put pressure onto pedals to go anywhere... Just like a bicycle... Whenever I ride and am going faster than 32Km/Hr, I am the only motivating force on my bicycle.


Depending on the "type of E-Bike" some of them have so much rotation resistance from the motor that you can't really even pedal them on your own, even when you want to or need to if the battery runs out... On my set up I can, and do, ride my E-Assist bike as a regular bicycle whenever I want...