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-   -   'New York Bike Delivery Workers Band Together for Safety' (https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/1240478-new-york-bike-delivery-workers-band-together-safety.html)

Arthur Peabody 10-13-21 12:25 AM

'New York Bike Delivery Workers Band Together for Safety'
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/b...ood-watch.html
You can right-click on the URI, download the file, read your local copy

Paul Barnard 10-13-21 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody (Post 22268168)
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/b...ood-watch.html
You can right-click on the URI, download the file, read your local copy

Was it not comment worthy?

I-Like-To-Bike 10-13-21 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody (Post 22268168)
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/b...ood-watch.html
You can right-click on the URI, download the file, read your local copy

For a more detailed description about the conditions for the NYC food delivery business and the plight of the riders who work for the app companies see this article at:
Revolt of the Delivery Riders
Note that almost all the delivery riders use electric bicycles. The article tells why.

blacknbluebikes 10-13-21 10:37 AM

pedestrians are getting hit around here every day. fingers point in all directions, but regardless, it ain't a sustainable situation.

Lostin76 10-14-21 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes (Post 22268588)
pedestrians are getting hit around here every day. fingers point in all directions, but regardless, it ain't a sustainable situation.

Pedestrians here get hit by cars, not so much eBikes or bikes. There are a LOT of eBikes on the streets though as so many people insist on having their meals delivered to them instead of going to get them or cooking at home. Yes, some people have to have deliveries, but the number of people in our building who order multiple meals delivered each day is astounding.

The original article that I-Like-to-Bike linked to really opened my eyes on the delivery bikers here. Really, really tough job and no one has their backs.

Inisfallen 10-19-21 01:04 PM


Originally Posted by Lostin76 (Post 22269566)
Pedestrians here get hit by cars, not so much eBikes or bikes. There are a LOT of eBikes on the streets though as so many people insist on having their meals delivered to them instead of going to get them or cooking at home. Yes, some people have to have deliveries, but the number of people in our building who order multiple meals delivered each day is astounding.

The original article that I-Like-to-Bike linked to really opened my eyes on the delivery bikers here. Really, really tough job and no one has their backs.

We have indeed become a city of people who are incapable of feeding themselves. And thus the proliferation of delivery riders on ebikes.

And, while I have the utmost sympathy for these riders trying to scratch out a living, it's out of control. It's dangerous. I ride my bike from midtown-west Manhattan to my home in Brooklyn just about every night. At around 11:30, so I'm always riding in the dark. And every night, every single night, no exceptions, I get startled by delivery riders coming at me fast, in the dark, quite often without lights, going the wrong way in the bike paths. It's a problem.

Lostin76 10-19-21 02:14 PM


Originally Posted by Inisfallen (Post 22275669)
We have indeed become a city of people who are incapable of feeding themselves. And thus the proliferation of delivery riders on ebikes.

And, while I have the utmost sympathy for these riders trying to scratch out a living, it's out of control. It's dangerous. I ride my bike from midtown-west Manhattan to my home in Brooklyn just about every night. At around 11:30, so I'm always riding in the dark. And every night, every single night, no exceptions, I get startled by delivery riders coming at me fast, in the dark, quite often without lights, going the wrong way in the bike paths. It's a problem.

It is out of control, and I’m sure you are hitting those times when so many people are “drunk ordering” food delivery, hence so many of the delivery bikers out. The salmoning that you mention is also a problem I wasn’t thinking of, but they do it. A lot!

holytrousers 10-19-21 04:48 PM

I remember seeing a lot of cops riding bicycles, can't they patrol night streets to catch all those bicycle thieves ?

livedarklions 10-20-21 05:47 AM


Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 22268488)
For a more detailed description about the conditions for the NYC food delivery business and the plight of the riders who work for the app companies see this article at:
Revolt of the Delivery Riders
Note that almost all the delivery riders use electric bicycles. The article tells why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgmC-OWnk_M


You realize you're illustrating the point you were making fun of in the other thread, right? These delivery guys are generally working for one of the ride share model services, which are set up in a manner so that the employer has no responsibility to or for their employees because they don't call them employees. These practices are not safe for anyone doing the job and are dangerous to other pedestrians and cyclists. When the accidents inevitably occur, neither the delivery service or the food vendor will be liable to anyone.

Remember the Domino's Pizza 30 minutes or free guarantee? They had to do away with it because people who were getting run over by their speeding drivers kept suing. Detaching the delivery from the store is a legal way to have dangerous policies without having to pay the real costs.

Lostin76 10-20-21 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by holytrousers (Post 22275884)
I remember seeing a lot of cops riding bicycles, can't they patrol night streets to catch all those bicycle thieves ?

Would be nice, wouldn’t it? Cops don’t do things like patrol or ticket here anymore. They sit in their stations or cars and stare at their phones all day. They definitely are not concerned about bikes being stolen.

holytrousers 10-20-21 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by Lostin76 (Post 22276363)
Would be nice, wouldn’t it? Cops don’t do things like patrol or ticket here anymore. They sit in their stations or cars and stare at their phones all day. They definitely are not concerned about bikes being stolen.

What a shame.. Do you know the reasons why they act this way ?

Lostin76 10-20-21 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by holytrousers (Post 22276560)
What a shame.. Do you know the reasons why they act this way ?

Seems to be many reasons - they don’t like the mayor, so they engaged in unofficial strikes. He is a hard mayor to like, I get it.

Then, when they went nuts on protestors during summer of 2020, the city pushed back. Think they got their feelings hurt over that and now are in the midst of another unofficial strike.

Pedestrians and bikers are pretty much on their own these days. They’ve written less than half of the tickets to drivers of a normal year and it’s one of the deadliest years on record this year for pedestrians and bikers.

Ealier this week, there was a story about NYPD officers harassing callers who put in 311 complaints about cop cars parking on sidewalks and in bike lanes. Our local precincts are lousy with cops parking their civilian cars on the sidewalks and people can barely get through. I’ve seen people have to push strollers out into the street to get around NYPD personal cars.

It’s a really sad situation when your police force is clearly against the people they police.

holytrousers 10-20-21 11:08 AM


Originally Posted by Lostin76 (Post 22276583)
Seems to be many reasons - they don’t like the mayor, so they engaged in unofficial strikes. He is a hard mayor to like, I get it.

Then, when they went nuts on protestors during summer of 2020, the city pushed back. Think they got their feelings hurt over that and now are in the midst of another unofficial strike.

Pedestrians and bikers are pretty much on their own these days. They’ve written less than half of the tickets to drivers of a normal year and it’s one of the deadliest years on record this year for pedestrians and bikers.

Ealier this week, there was a story about NYPD officers harassing callers who put in 311 complaints about cop cars parking on sidewalks and in bike lanes. Our local precincts are lousy with cops parking their civilian cars on the sidewalks and people can barely get through. I’ve seen people have to push strollers out into the street to get around NYPD personal cars.

It’s a really sad situation when your police force is clearly against the people they police.

:eek:
Is the mayor at least aware of the situation ?
Are people communicating with the police ?

blacknbluebikes 10-20-21 12:03 PM

We have much bigger problems in NYC, unfortunately. Happens when you're managing 8.8 million people in a fairly small place. Amazing it works at all.

Inisfallen 10-21-21 08:04 AM


Originally Posted by holytrousers (Post 22276663)
:eek:
Is the mayor at least aware of the situation ?
Are people communicating with the police ?

The mayor is well aware of the situation. But he's a lame duck now, so he probably doesn't care.

He lost control of the police department long ago. Some of the fault is his, but to be fair, the New York City Police Department considers itself to be an entity apart, not answerable to anyone other than the Chief of Police and the PBA union president (and also the Sergeant's Benevolent Association, and the other unions representing officers and detectives). They don't even consider themselves answerable to the Commissioner of Police, since he's a political appointee, not a police officer (although the department certainly believes itself, wrongly, to have veto power over the appointment of the commissioner).

The department has basically stopped all law enforcement in the city. Part of the problem is political -- NYC is a fairly liberal Democratic city, and the rank and file of the department, by and large, are not liberal Democrats. Their union endorsed Donald Trump for president. They demonstrate their support for Trump by refusing to comply with the city's mass transit mask requirement, and reacting aggressively and sometimes with physical force when, on those rare occasions when they're seen on mass transit, asked by riders to wear masks. They are currently refusing to comply with the city's vaccine mandate for all city employees.

The vast majority of them do not live in New York City, and thus have no interest in the health of the city as long as it's solvent enough to cover their paychecks. I believe that a majority of officers have never in their lives lived in New York City, which is seriously not a good thing.

They basically detest the people of New York City, the poor and the rich alike (although they detest the poor and rich in different ways, of course).

Another part of it is that they're having a hissy fit about the nationwide protests after the death of George Floyd, so they've withdrawn from policing the city. They're like a little kid taking his ball and going home because he got a bad call in the game.

It's a mess right now. Beyond obviously, a police department that does not consider itself answerable to the elected officials and legislature governing the city they're supposed to be policing is unacceptable. It's banana republic nonsense.

Inisfallen 10-21-21 08:09 AM


Originally Posted by Lostin76 (Post 22276583)
Ealier this week, there was a story about NYPD officers harassing callers who put in 311 complaints about cop cars parking on sidewalks and in bike lanes. Our local precincts are lousy with cops parking their civilian cars on the sidewalks and people can barely get through. I’ve seen people have to push strollers out into the street to get around NYPD personal cars.

I've lived in NYC all my life (sixty-plus years now). That's always been true. Complain about the cops parking on the sidewalk in front of your house? You will pay a price for that.

Lostin76 10-21-21 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by Inisfallen (Post 22277635)
I've lived in NYC all my life (sixty-plus years now). That's always been true. Complain about the cops parking on the sidewalk in front of your house? You will pay a price for that.

I’ve only lived her 20 years, and you are right, it’s always been this way. But it seems particularly galling lately with the massive increase in traffic and the decrease in their actual work that we pay them to do.

BikePointz101 10-21-21 02:28 PM

This was a great read, thank you for sharing! I also wanted to share this, going along with bike city in cities. I’m Maggie, a rising senior at Brown University, and a few friends and I are building a safety-focused mapping app for bike riders called Pointz (bikepointz.com). The app favors roads on a ‘quiet network’ of safer low-stress, low-traffic routes. We built it with the help and input of hundreds of bike riders and bike advocacy leaders. We're looking for people in cities across the US to try the app before it opens up publicly. If you would be willing to check it out, here is the sign up form :) Bikepointz.com/applaunch

holytrousers 10-21-21 04:32 PM


Originally Posted by BikePointz101 (Post 22278115)
This was a great read, thank you for sharing! I also wanted to share this, going along with bike city in cities. I’m Maggie, a rising senior at Brown University, and a few friends and I are building a safety-focused mapping app for bike riders called Pointz (bikepointz.com). The app favors roads on a ‘quiet network’ of safer low-stress, low-traffic routes. We built it with the help and input of hundreds of bike riders and bike advocacy leaders. We're looking for people in cities across the US to try the app before it opens up publicly. If you would be willing to check it out, here is the sign up form :) Bikepointz.com/applaunch

Why isn't your app open-source ?

holytrousers 10-21-21 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by Inisfallen (Post 22277627)
The mayor is well aware of the situation. But he's a lame duck now, so he probably doesn't care.

He lost control of the police department long ago. Some of the fault is his, but to be fair, the New York City Police Department considers itself to be an entity apart, not answerable to anyone other than the Chief of Police and the PBA union president (and also the Sergeant's Benevolent Association, and the other unions representing officers and detectives). They don't even consider themselves answerable to the Commissioner of Police, since he's a political appointee, not a police officer (although the department certainly believes itself, wrongly, to have veto power over the appointment of the commissioner).

The department has basically stopped all law enforcement in the city. Part of the problem is political -- NYC is a fairly liberal Democratic city, and the rank and file of the department, by and large, are not liberal Democrats. Their union endorsed Donald Trump for president. They demonstrate their support for Trump by refusing to comply with the city's mass transit mask requirement, and reacting aggressively and sometimes with physical force when, on those rare occasions when they're seen on mass transit, asked by riders to wear masks. They are currently refusing to comply with the city's vaccine mandate for all city employees.

The vast majority of them do not live in New York City, and thus have no interest in the health of the city as long as it's solvent enough to cover their paychecks. I believe that a majority of officers have never in their lives lived in New York City, which is seriously not a good thing.

They basically detest the people of New York City, the poor and the rich alike (although they detest the poor and rich in different ways, of course).

Another part of it is that they're having a hissy fit about the nationwide protests after the death of George Floyd, so they've withdrawn from policing the city. They're like a little kid taking his ball and going home because he got a bad call in the game.

It's a mess right now. Beyond obviously, a police department that does not consider itself answerable to the elected officials and legislature governing the city they're supposed to be policing is unacceptable. It's banana republic nonsense.

Thank you for this in-depth overview of the situation. I think i can relate a bit more to your daily experience in New York.
Do you think an action in the vein of a free hug day could to get back the police, or help in solving this impasse ?

Inisfallen 10-22-21 07:05 AM


Originally Posted by holytrousers (Post 22278252)
Do you think an action in the vein of a free hug day could to get back the police, or help in solving this impasse ?

I think the idea of people approaching NYPD officers and hugging them is, on the one hand, hilarious and a fantastic idea, and on the other hand, likely to get those people maced, beaten to a pulp and taken away in handcuffs. And, to be fair, my initial reaction to some stranger coming up to me and embracing me would definitely involve pepper spray.

BillyD 10-22-21 10:03 AM


Originally Posted by Inisfallen (Post 22278771)
I think the idea of people approaching NYPD officers and hugging them is, on the one hand, hilarious and a fantastic idea, and on the other hand, likely to get those people maced, beaten to a pulp and taken away in handcuffs. And, to be fair, my initial reaction to some stranger coming up to me and embracing me would definitely involve pepper spray.

:roflmao2:

Well, during these covid times a hug is a scary thing for all parties involved.

Roughstuff 10-22-21 01:35 PM

I always thought a good idea would be to have "someone who just happened to be riding to my house too" get in front of the Pizza delivery guy and make sure he takes more than 30 minutes.

livedarklions 10-22-21 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by Roughstuff (Post 22279389)
I always thought a good idea would be to have "someone who just happened to be riding to my house too" get in front of the Pizza delivery guy and make sure he takes more than 30 minutes.


You're about 28 years late on that trick working. They got rid of the policy after a $78 million jury verdict in 1993.

Comfort is King 01-19-22 07:09 AM

I feel bad for the "real" delivery cyclists, the ones who delivered because they just wanted to be on their bikes. Now they are forced to be on e-bikes. Before, if you were a fast cyclist, you could make more than others. Now, anyone is a fast cyclist. People who have no business being a bicycle delivery person, because it was such a gnarly job, can do it without the requisite skill.

sloppy12 01-19-22 08:33 AM


Originally Posted by Comfort is King (Post 22379421)
I feel bad for the "real" delivery cyclists, the ones who delivered because they just wanted to be on their bikes. Now they are forced to be on e-bikes. Before, if you were a fast cyclist, you could make more than others. Now, anyone is a fast cyclist. People who have no business being a bicycle delivery person, because it was such a gnarly job, can do it without the requisite skill.

GTFO its not a exclusive club its a freaking transportation job. Bikes are not hard to ride 6 year old kids do it, Ebikes are not hard to ride, If someone was fast without e assist they will still be fast. Do you even know any "real" delivery cyclists? The ones I know definitely don't throw shade at ebikes.

Lostin76 01-19-22 09:10 AM

If people are out there delivering on bikes (e- or not) they are working hard to earn their money. I don’t always like they way they ride, but they also have to hustle HARD to make it.

I probably get food delivered once a year, if that. I don’t mind walking to pick up my food or zipping further on my bike. What I do mind is seeing these delivery workers maligned when I also see them out there getting people’s food to them in blizzards, horrible freezing temps, and pouring rain.

Comfort is King 01-19-22 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by sloppy12 (Post 22379498)
GTFO its not a exclusive club its a freaking transportation job. Bikes are not hard to ride 6 year old kids do it, Ebikes are not hard to ride, If someone was fast without e assist they will still be fast. Do you even know any "real" delivery cyclists? The ones I know definitely don't throw shade at ebikes.

I can clearly see you have no idea about what the job entails, nor what effects e-bikes have had on delivery. I know a bit because I used to be a bike delivery captain in a major city. I was the fastest in the city, and we had the second fastest average delivery as a group, in the history of the region. Every one that did delivery was a maniac, virtually in the whole city. It was anything but easy. It took endurance and skill.

Just because a six year old can ride a bike, doesn't mean he can do delivery. It's very disrespectful to say so. It was actually an elite job in some ways, because so few could possibly do it. Fast on a real bike is much different than on an electric one. Anyone can do the latter, but can they do it safely like a REAL cyclist? Mostly they cannot.

In NYC, there used to be a few people who delivered on e-bikes because they couldn't do it on a real bike. People like elderly immigrants. Now, it's expected that you have an e-bike. It's not impossible to do it without one nowadays. And they are expensive and prone to getting stolen.

livedarklions 01-19-22 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by Comfort is King (Post 22379717)
. Every one that did delivery was a maniac, virtually in the whole city.


Obviously, maniacs are the real victims here.

Sorry, not working up much sense of loss here. The fax machine and email devastated the demand for bike messengers decades ago, and the volume of food delivery is something completely different from earlier eras due to the online nature of ordering and dispatching.

sloppy12 01-19-22 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by Comfort is King (Post 22379717)
I can clearly see you have no idea about what the job entails, nor what effects e-bikes have had on delivery. I know a bit because I used to be a bike delivery captain in a major city. I was the fastest in the city, and we had the second fastest average delivery as a group, in the history of the region. Every one that did delivery was a maniac, virtually in the whole city. It was anything but easy. It took endurance and skill.

Just because a six year old can ride a bike, doesn't mean he can do delivery. It's very disrespectful to say so. It was actually an elite job in some ways, because so few could possibly do it. Fast on a real bike is much different than on an electric one. Anyone can do the latter, but can they do it safely like a REAL cyclist? Mostly they cannot.

In NYC, there used to be a few people who delivered on e-bikes because they couldn't do it on a real bike. People like elderly immigrants. Now, it's expected that you have an e-bike. It's not impossible to do it without one nowadays. And they are expensive and prone to getting stolen.

I know what the job entails just fine. I actually dont know any current or former messengers/delivery guys that have any issue with people using a ebike for that kind of work, none of them care in the least...

My 6 year old comment is directed at the BS that certain people have no business on a type of bike. you act like a e bike is a F1 car or something. And if you were indeed the fastest in your city then there is no way you were doing anything safely. E bike normal bike no one that is fast doing deliveries has ever been safe, lucky maybe. Its disrespectful of you to act like people on a ebike dont earn there spot they work the same crazy hours do the same crazy work in the same streets.


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