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kid riding electric bike FAST on a sidewalk

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kid riding electric bike FAST on a sidewalk

Old 09-11-23, 06:35 AM
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kid riding electric bike FAST on a sidewalk

I really hope I don't have to come back to this thread at a later date to report an accident

this morning, on my drive to work, I saw a kid (12-14? yrs old) riding an electric bike, FAST on a sidewalk, next to me, in the opposite direction of traffic. someone pulling out of their auto's driveway, is not going to expect fast traffic coming from that direction. & lot's of homeowners on that stretch, do not have a clear line of sight due to hedges & trees. meaning, they have to stick their car's nose out, into that's kid's line of travel, before they even know the kid is coming

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Old 09-11-23, 06:49 AM
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Darwin will sort it out.
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Old 09-11-23, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
I really hope I don't have to come back to this thread at a later date to report an accident

this morning, on my way driving to work, I saw a kid riding an electric bike, FAST on a sidewalk, next to me, in the opposite direction of traffic. someone pulling out of their auto's driveway, it's going to expect fast traffic coming from that direction. & lot's of ppl on that stretch do not have a clear line of sight due to hedges & trees
We have a young (5-6 yr old?) kid in our development that rides an e-scooter. When he's coming down the hill, he's easily hitting speeds over 25 mph, barely in control. No helmet, no gloves, shorts and a t-shirt. A true Darwin contestant. You have to know that when the inevitable happens, the parents are going to sue the person he hits.
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Old 09-11-23, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
We have a young (5-6 yr old?) kid in our development that rides an e-scooter. When he's coming down the hill, he's easily hitting speeds over 25 mph, barely in control. No helmet, no gloves, shorts and a t-shirt. A true Darwin contestant. You have to know that when the inevitable happens, the parents are going to sue the person he hits.
report it to the local police now, have it on record (because you certainly can't say anything to the moron parents)

I'm, thinking I should send a letter to the local paper & the schools' Principals (in the immediate area) as a PSA. I can probably get a photo of the kid tomorrow, same time, if I set up my dash cam
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Old 09-11-23, 09:13 AM
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Regrettably, this is not an uncommon sight in our area, whether on a pedal bike, e-bike, or motorized bicycle. Drivers at intersections have been conditioned by years of experience to focus on areas where they expect conflicting traffic to appear, and not spend time looking in directions where they don't expect such traffic to appear (such as at high speed from a sidewalk in the opposite direction of traffic). When these riders crash at intersections, driveways, or other locations, the number of reported bicyclist crashes then is publicized as showing the metro area is "dangerous for bicycling". In some cities, wrong-way sidewalk riding is legally ambiguous or expressly permitted. And many police agencies don't see traffic enforcement of any bicycle laws as a priority, especially where organized groups of motorized bicycle users have complained to elected officials.
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Old 09-11-23, 09:13 AM
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It's getting ridiculous. There's kids (like 10-15 years old range or so) all over our area riding e-bikes, e-scooters, and little e-motorcycles (the ones that look like little motocross bikes) on the sidewalk, zig-zagging on and off the street, blowing through intersections w stop signs, stop lights, you-name-it. And FAST. Maybe 25% of them have helmets on. Obviously the parents bought them these things.
Aside from how stupid and reckless it all is, man, it's a rare sighting these days to see a young person pedaling an "analog" bike using their own physical power. Sad.
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Old 09-11-23, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
report it to the local police now, have it on record (because you certainly can't say anything to the moron parents)

I'm, thinking I should send a letter to the local paper & the schools' Principals (in the immediate area) as a PSA. I can probably get a photo of the kid tomorrow, same time, if I set up my dash cam
I've had parents very loudly insist, sometimes to the point of near-rage, that riding against traffic is ALWAYS preferable and safer, and that their child had better be riding against traffic or else, then giving their reasons (no overtaking, "can always see" conflicting traffic, etc.) No amount of citing traffic law or crash diagrams seems to have any effect, as they feel safer riding wrong-way.
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Old 09-11-23, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
I've had parents very loudly insist, sometimes to the point of near-rage, that riding against traffic is ALWAYS preferable and safer, and that their child had better be riding against traffic or else, then giving their reasons (no overtaking, "can always see" conflicting traffic, etc.) No amount of citing traffic law or crash diagrams seems to have any effect, as they feel safer riding wrong-way.
yup, well, welcome to my windshield. oh & by the way, don't bother snapping your helmet strap, right? good grief
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Old 09-11-23, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
report it to the local police now, have it on record (because you certainly can't say anything to the moron parents)

I'm, thinking I should send a letter to the local paper & the schools' Principals (in the immediate area) as a PSA. I can probably get a photo of the kid tomorrow, same time, if I set up my dash cam
I seriously doubt law enforcement would even bother with paperwork for a "kid on an e-scooter" complaint. I always use a dash cam, just to cover myself.
Some communities are offering new e-bike rider classes. Like most classes like that, most of the attendees are of the type that would ride responsibly anyway. The idiots won't bother, because they don't care. But, I can see a time in the near future where some type of safety class - and proof of attending one - may be required of e-bike and e-scooter riders. All it will take is some politician's kid to get clobbered by one while walking down the sidewalk.
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Old 09-11-23, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
Regrettably, this is not an uncommon sight in our area, whether on a pedal bike, e-bike, or motorized bicycle. Drivers at intersections have been conditioned by years of experience to focus on areas where they expect conflicting traffic to appear, and not spend time looking in directions where they don't expect such traffic to appear (such as at high speed from a sidewalk in the opposite direction of traffic). When these riders crash at intersections, driveways, or other locations, the number of reported bicyclist crashes then is publicized as showing the metro area is "dangerous for bicycling". In some cities, wrong-way sidewalk riding is legally ambiguous or expressly permitted. And many police agencies don't see traffic enforcement of any bicycle laws as a priority, especially where organized groups of motorized bicycle users have complained to elected officials.
I'm hopeful, because in this very area, a girl, riding her bike, was struck & killed in a crosswalk, on her way to school, maybe 20 yrs ago. 4 yrs ago I met the mother at a party. she was still absolutely devastated. her daughter waited until she had the light in her favor. won't go into those details because I don't have them, I know riding in a crosswalk is diff. but when kids are allowed to ride bikes on sidewalks, then they get to a crosswalk & get the light, what else would they think they should do. anyway, I think this town & this very area would be interested in this new hazard. if not, they might have another tragedy to explain
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Old 09-11-23, 09:45 AM
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I can see into the future when e-bike riders reminisce the time they could call their vehicles a bicycle, and did not have to have a License, or License plate, or State Inspection, or Liability Insurance, and could drive on the side walk.

Beware the modern day prophecy... Ha
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Old 09-11-23, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
I seriously doubt law enforcement would even bother with ...
I hear this a lot about stuff. & I feel the same way sometimes. but when I make a call & say what I saw, it is recorded. I repeat myself, to be sure the recording is complete. it doesn't matter what the person who answered the call says. I've completed my roll in the process. there's nothing else I can do. I can not control their behavior, only my own. it's not my job to connect any dots, draw any conclusions, or take action. we don't know if there was another call about the same kid, or a near miss, or whatever. that's what they do, connect the dots. if we don't make our call & someone else doesn't make their call. there are no dots to connect

anyway, not to point this at you, but that's my approach to reporting stuff ...
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Old 09-11-23, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
lot's of homeowners on that stretch, do not have a clear line of sight due to hedges & trees. meaning, they have to stick their car's nose out, into that's kid's line of travel, before they even know the kid is coming
This has been a fast growing issue & needs to be addressed by the local ordinances. It's never enforced, but the wording is typically in place for it.
Doesn't matter if the ped is in the right or wrong, visibility needs to not be impeded.
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Old 09-11-23, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
I hear this a lot about stuff. & I feel the same way sometimes. but when I make a call & say what I saw, it is recorded. I repeat myself, to be sure the recording is complete. it doesn't matter what the person who answered the call says. I've completed my roll in the process. there's nothing else I can do. I can not control their behavior, only my own. it's not my job to connect any dots, draw any conclusions, or take action. we don't know if there was another call about the same kid, or a near miss, or whatever. that's what they do, connect the dots. if we don't make our call & someone else doesn't make their call. there are no dots to connect

anyway, not to point this at you, but that's my approach to reporting stuff ...
I get your point (no pun intended) but sometimes I just feel like that crazy old guy yelling "GET OFF MY LAWN!"
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Old 09-11-23, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
sometimes I just feel like that crazy old guy yelling "GET OFF MY LAWN!"
oh yeah totally

Dr Rick ... who knew he had a name. I may need a session

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Old 09-11-23, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Troul
This has been a fast growing issue & needs to be addressed by the local ordinances. It's never enforced, but the wording is typically in place for it.
Doesn't matter if the ped is in the right or wrong, visibility needs to not be impeded.
Maintaining adequate sight distance at intersections is indeed important, but the provision or existence of sight distance does not affect the conditioning of drivers to not look in specific directions at intersections, even if nothing is blocking that sightline.

Also, no static traffic control device such as signs or markings has been effective in changing this behavior. Some dynamic devices (such as the illuminated "animated eyes" proposed by Van Houten et al several years ago) have shown some effect in encouraging drivers to look for crossing pedestrians, but may not be effective for higher-speed users entering from unexpected directions.
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Old 09-11-23, 08:08 PM
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You know what will make people pay more attention?
having a frequent presence of a traffic enforcement official.
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Old 09-11-23, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Troul
You know what will make people pay more attention?
having a frequent presence of a traffic enforcement official.
It may improve their ingrained behavior, but it's not going to suddenly get them to look in directions they don't usually look. In fact, they may be so focused on the enforcement offiical as to actually spend less time looking around as they should.
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Old 09-11-23, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
It may improve their ingrained behavior, but it's not going to suddenly get them to look in directions they don't usually look. In fact, they may be so focused on the enforcement offiical as to actually spend less time looking around as they should.
if that is the outcome, so be it. Rather they pay a fine if paying attention to cyclists is not an option.
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Old 09-12-23, 06:02 AM
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there are gas scooters being ridden on the sidewalks in the neighborhood where I work. We see it regularly when we take lunch walks. A coworker has said something twice, and neither person cared.
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Old 09-17-23, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
I've had parents very loudly insist, sometimes to the point of near-rage, that riding against traffic is ALWAYS preferable and safer, and that their child had better be riding against traffic or else, then giving their reasons (no overtaking, "can always see" conflicting traffic, etc.) No amount of citing traffic law or crash diagrams seems to have any effect, as they feel safer riding wrong-way.
I have argued this with friends and family before, and I think it's a thing: I've felt for a while that even running and walking against traffic increases the risk. We cyclists (especially mountainbikers) all know the totally reliable phenomenon of, "if you look at the obstacle, you go towards to obstacle". You want to look at the line you want to take not the thing you want to avoid--the longer you fixate on the obstacle, the more you drift towards it. This is also true with people driving cars. So by riding/running/walking towards oncoming traffic you tend to surprise the driver more, and (the part of my theory that I argue with anyone who'll listen) add in you are suddenly making more eye contact with them, and as a result their gaze gets even more locked on you. In those milliseconds before the driver's brain corrects, bad stuff will happen.
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Old 09-17-23, 04:15 PM
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I have been observing bicyclists of all ages riding against traffic my entire life. Sadly the schools tell children to walk against traffic which is a good idea and so the child thinks that this applies to riding their bicycle. Sadly even when 40 years latter as an adult they start to again ride a bicycle they often repeat the same dangerous behavior.

In the 1970's when city and state engineers started to paint lines for bike lanes they often put riders in situations where they would be going against the flow of traffic or past freeway off-ramps where motorist would not be expecting them. Unfortunately engineers are no better today then they were 50 years ago. Something about engineers that keeps them from being able to learn as they age.
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Old 09-17-23, 04:18 PM
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when out in the street, a runner/walker isn't held to motorized traffic laws, but a cyclists is. that should be a really quick conversation with anyone arguing anything different.
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Old 11-19-23, 03:58 PM
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I do wonder how much of these stories don't get reported....


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Old 11-19-23, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pbass
We cyclists (especially mountainbikers) all know the totally reliable phenomenon of, "if you look at the obstacle, you go towards to obstacle".
That behavior is nothing remotely close to "totally reliable", and in-fact, every competent vehicle operator has trained themself to decouple their hands and eyes. If you haven't done so, you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you, and you should only be walking.

For just one example, a very minimal standard of operator competency is to be able to look for cross traffic without swerving.

Several of the drills we use in both safe-driving and race-driving schools exist precisely to implement this training. The fact that there exist people like yourself, who believe it is acceptable for operators to only be capable of staring straight ahead or weaving all over the road, is testament to the abysmal standard of operator instruction that persists.
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