Missing bike reflectors
09-28-23, 09:07 AM
#26
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A similar scenario of a car at a stop sign with the cyclist a little further down the road still depending on reflectors but the cyclist passes in front of the car as it pulls out would still result in a collision since the car wouldn’t see the cyclist until the last moment. Similar scenarios with the same result.
Side reflectors aren’t effective for collision avoidance because the detection angle is too narrow.
All the more reason to reject incorrect explanations.
One’s credibility is weakened by using an incorrect explanation.
One person said he found them useful. Using an example that shows “you” don’t have any idea about them isn’t going to sway hem at all.
One’s credibility is weakened by using an incorrect explanation.
One person said he found them useful. Using an example that shows “you” don’t have any idea about them isn’t going to sway hem at all.
This is a “it’s not perfect” argument. Nothing is perfect.
The CSPC link is more convincing.
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09-28-23, 09:10 AM
#27
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As I did note earlier, the side retroreflection on my bicycles is primarily for looks and not in any expectation of improved safety. The greater concern are the riders who think side reflectors are effective and in doing so choose not to use headlamps - which are required across the US by state statutes.
).
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09-28-23, 09:13 AM
#28
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This cite does not indicate what Forestor's objection to the CPSC's regulation on reflectors was, nor the outcome of the case.
Can you provide a summary? Lots of people instigate lawsuits for lots of reasons, some of them have a case, others are frivolous and just blowing smoke.
Edited to add:
Does this CPSC press release provide the outcome of Forestor's lawsuit on the subject of reflectors?"Office of Information and Public Affairs Washington, DC 20207
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 3, 1977 Release # 77-057
CPSC Announces Court Decision On Bike Regulation WASHINGTON, D.C. (June 3) -- The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) today expressed satisfaction at a court decision which affirmed its authority to regulate bicycles under the Federal Hazardous Substances Act (FHSA). In a decision handed down June 1, 1977, by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, the Commission's authority to issue design and performance standards that ban those products which do not meet the specifications was upheld, as was the Commission's action to regulate full-size bicycles as "articles intended for use by children." The Court also upheld specific provisions of the bicycle regulation which took effect last year. These include provisions on reflectors, stopping distance brake requirements, wheels and tires. Finding insufficient justification in the record, the Court order remanded several provisions of the bicycle regulation to the Commission for further consideration. These include brake pad material, handle bar width, pedal construction and protusions. The Commission's staff is currently studying the remanded sections and will make their recommendations to the Commission as soon as possible. The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission protects the public from unreasonable risk of injury or death from 15,000 types of consumer products under the agency's jurisdiction. To report a dangerous product or a product-related injury and for information on CPSC's fax-on-demand service, call CPSC's hotline at (800) 638-2772 or CPSC's teletypewriter at (800) 638-8270. To order a press release through fax-on-demand, call (301) 504-0051 from the handset of your fax machine and enter the release number. Consumers can obtain this release and recall information or report product hazards to info cpsc.gov."
Can you provide a summary? Lots of people instigate lawsuits for lots of reasons, some of them have a case, others are frivolous and just blowing smoke.
Edited to add:
Does this CPSC press release provide the outcome of Forestor's lawsuit on the subject of reflectors?"Office of Information and Public Affairs Washington, DC 20207
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 3, 1977 Release # 77-057
CPSC Announces Court Decision On Bike Regulation WASHINGTON, D.C. (June 3) -- The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) today expressed satisfaction at a court decision which affirmed its authority to regulate bicycles under the Federal Hazardous Substances Act (FHSA). In a decision handed down June 1, 1977, by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, the Commission's authority to issue design and performance standards that ban those products which do not meet the specifications was upheld, as was the Commission's action to regulate full-size bicycles as "articles intended for use by children." The Court also upheld specific provisions of the bicycle regulation which took effect last year. These include provisions on reflectors, stopping distance brake requirements, wheels and tires. Finding insufficient justification in the record, the Court order remanded several provisions of the bicycle regulation to the Commission for further consideration. These include brake pad material, handle bar width, pedal construction and protusions. The Commission's staff is currently studying the remanded sections and will make their recommendations to the Commission as soon as possible. The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission protects the public from unreasonable risk of injury or death from 15,000 types of consumer products under the agency's jurisdiction. To report a dangerous product or a product-related injury and for information on CPSC's fax-on-demand service, call CPSC's hotline at (800) 638-2772 or CPSC's teletypewriter at (800) 638-8270. To order a press release through fax-on-demand, call (301) 504-0051 from the handset of your fax machine and enter the release number. Consumers can obtain this release and recall information or report product hazards to info cpsc.gov."
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
09-28-23, 10:26 AM
#30
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I like retroreflective tape. I put pieces in different places on the bike, shoes, and helmet to augment my lights.
I saw a neat trick for people who don't like to stick it to the tubes of the bike. First put a piece of electrical tape on, then stick the retroreflective tape to that. It removes easily and leaves no damage to the paint.
I saw a neat trick for people who don't like to stick it to the tubes of the bike. First put a piece of electrical tape on, then stick the retroreflective tape to that. It removes easily and leaves no damage to the paint.
09-28-23, 10:41 AM
#31
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The new study was initiated after the CPSC published a report in June 1994, Bicycle Use and Hazard Patterns in the United States. This report was based on 1991 nationwide surveys that collected information on bicycle-related injuries and characteristics and use patterns of the general population of bicyclists. That study indicated the disproportionate number of night time bicycle accidents.
The new study looked into potential improvements in reflectors and the current standard as far as nighttime detection and recognition of bicyclists and found that none of the tested reflector or light treatments significantly improved performance in cross traffic detection or recognition over the current CPSC standard and noted the difficulty in improving counter measures for the hazard of cross traffic collisions. It did not state that the CPSC spoke reflectors were "ineffective" or "useless" for detecting or recognizing cross traffic bicyclists and recommended no changes in the standard for side reflectors.
Note that there was no discussion of an alleged cyclists' belief that side reflectors were a suitable replacement for front lights.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 09-28-23 at 11:32 AM.
09-28-23, 11:37 AM
#32
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09-28-23, 11:45 AM
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As has been pointed out, in the situation where a vehicle's headlights can illuminate a bicycle's wheel reflectors, the motor vehicle is either so far back from the intersection as to not pose a crash risk, or is so close, as it would seem you tried to illustrate with the rearranging of the graphic, that the driver would not be able to react effectively, even if aware and at a full stop (which eliminates some but not all of perception-reaction delay). Insisting otherwise would seem to require ignoring basic human factors information on visibility and road user reaction.
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Last edited by RCMoeur; 09-28-23 at 11:46 AM. Reason: oops - misattributed quote
09-28-23, 12:48 PM
#34
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After much discussion I've come to conclusion that, since I don't ride unless the sun's out, they're not being replaced on the two bikes that don't have them. 
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09-28-23, 12:53 PM
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And with that, this thread is closed.
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