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Who's fault?

Old 12-28-23, 12:47 PM
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Who's fault?

You are in the poing marked as A and you have to turn in C point , a car is standing by the B point waiting for you.
You start turning because the lane at your left is free, but you can't see behing the guy on B since the car is blocking the view.
When you almost hit the C lane a car overtake you from the right at over 100kmh, whitout even touching you but very close (you must imagine the sound of the wheels skidding on the road).
So... who's fault?

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Old 12-28-23, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CrowSeph
...you can't see behind the guy on B since the car is blocking the view...
JoeyBike's 3 Rules for crossing intersections:

1) Look both ways before crossing/entering any roadway, even a one-way street.

2) If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO.

3) If you're NOT SURE, you can't go.


Therefore, if you couldn't see but you proceeded anyway - your fault. IMO.
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Old 12-28-23, 02:10 PM
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I don't understand the question. Why would B be waiting? It would appear B has ROW.
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Old 12-28-23, 02:21 PM
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I sorta get the image, the wording is confusing though.

Regardless of who's where and doing what, the same rules apply, never take it for granted anyone see you or will stop for you. If you pause long enough and listen, you can see and hear if someone is coming at you blind. When in doubt, do without and pause. I liken intersection assessment to slowing things down to a crawl, you have a grasp of what everyone is doing so well that it appears time has temporarily slowed as you pass by.

Last edited by Garthr; 12-28-23 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 12-28-23, 03:12 PM
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if their is doubt in clear view of traffic, then that is not a safe movement to continue forward with. Seek an alt option.
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Old 12-28-23, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c.
I don't understand the question. Why would B be waiting? It would appear B has ROW.
B was waiting. Why B was waiting isn’t relevant.
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Old 12-28-23, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CrowSeph
You are in the poing marked as A and you have to turn in C point , a car is standing by the B point waiting for you.
You start turning because the lane at your left is free, but you can't see behing the guy on B since the car is blocking the view.
When you almost hit the C lane a car overtake you from the right at over 100kmh, whitout even touching you but very close (you must imagine the sound of the wheels skidding on the road).
So... who's fault?
Do you drive?

If A was in a car, would they have ROW to use the lane occupied by C?

(The answer is obvious, isn’t it?)

Regardless of who has the ROW, how much extra effort would A require to keep on top of the situation?
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Old 12-28-23, 03:46 PM
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If "B" is letting you in before he turns left, which he shouldn't be doing anyway, as pointed out already he has the ROW. Then entering "B's" lane might be OK. Crossing into the "C" lane is a crapshoot. In which case A is at fault if there is an accident.

One might get into B's lane when he lets you in, and only after confirming C lane is free, then cross over.

Sometimes people try to be nice, But in doing so, only confuse the situation. At a 4 way stop this might lead to a minor accident, on a major highway this can be fatal.

Last edited by xroadcharlie; 12-29-23 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 12-28-23, 03:50 PM
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IMO driver A is at fault, because he's the entering vehicle and therefore has the responsibility to do so safely. The fact that driver B is being a "nice guy" and holding back to let you go first, or yielding because he's making a left, or simply fell asleep doesn't free you from your obligation to wait until you can enter and turn safely.

BTW there is an easy, SAFE way to handle similar situations. Sight far down the road, well behind car "B" to see what's coming. Count off a few seconds for any car hidden in the blind spot to clear, then go when you know its OK.
‐-------------
This works fine unless someone is stopped, hiding behind car B and waiting for a sucker.

Last edited by FBinNY; 12-29-23 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 12-28-23, 03:52 PM
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If you can't see traffic coming from both directions, don't enter the lane.
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Old 12-28-23, 05:27 PM
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I basically agree that A is at fault; however, I'd like a closer look and I also noticed that the OP is from Italy and the street names seem to indicate the image is of Italian streets, so I do wonder if Rules of the Road do make a difference.


.
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Old 12-28-23, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I basically agree that A is at fault; however, I'd like a closer look and I also noticed that the OP is from Italy and the street names seem to indicate the image is of Italian streets, so I do wonder if Rules of the Road do make a difference.
.
Almost universally, entering traffic must yield. Even in France with "Priority on the right", A would still be wrong.

Either way, the focus shouldn't be on assigning fault, but on preventing the need to do so. (see my earlier post)
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Old 12-28-23, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I basically agree that A is at fault; however, I'd like a closer look and I also noticed that the OP is from Italy and the street names seem to indicate the image is of Italian streets, so I do wonder if Rules of the Road do make a difference.


.
Could be. If they drive on the wrong side of the street there. Where Left is Right and Right is Wrong.

Last edited by xroadcharlie; 12-29-23 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 12-29-23, 09:16 AM
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B appears to be on the more superior road. As ask by jon c. why are they waiting. If they don't have some signage that requires them to stop, then by stopping and not taking their privilege to continue, then they are mucking everything up for everyone else. If I were A, I'd sit there until B figured out what they were meant to do. Or I'd go a different direction that doesn't pass across B's potential path.

However being in a different country, your laws, regulations and conventions might be way different than ours.

Last edited by Iride01; 12-29-23 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 12-29-23, 12:51 PM
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it's always the bicycle's fault ...................................................go find a smooth place to cross is the messengers creed
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Old 12-30-23, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CrowSeph
You are in the poing marked as A and you have to turn in C point , a car is standing by the B point waiting for you.
You start turning because the lane at your left is free, but you can't see behing the guy on B since the car is blocking the view.
When you almost hit the C lane a car overtake you from the right at over 100kmh, whitout even touching you but very close (you must imagine the sound of the wheels skidding on the road).
So... who's fault?

assuming B is in a legit “waiting spot” and waiting for A to move, then A is at fault. C had ROW on the straight through lane and A nearly pulled out in front of C because A didn’t see C. If C was speeding, that might be considered a contributory factor in a collision, but it’s still mainly on A. A blind spot doesn’t mean “there’s nothing there”, it means “there may or may not be something there - proceed accordingly”
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Old 12-30-23, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by xroadcharlie
Could be. If they drive on the wrong side of the street there. Where Left is Right and Right is Wrong.
Italy drives on the right like the US (Italians, on the other hand, drive wherever they like!&#128512
in all seriousness, though, rules of the road can vary unpredictably by country, so it’s hard to know whether “B” in the OPs example was playing by the rules. For example, in Greece, cars already on a roundabout must yield to cars entering the roundabout, which goes against almost universal roundabout rules*, where cars already on the roundabout have ROW
*except in the US, where it seems a disturbing proportion of drivers have no clue how to negotiate a roundabout 🙄
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Old 12-30-23, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 13ollocks
Italy drives on the right like the US (Italians, on the other hand, drive wherever they like!&#128512
sadly is not s joke...
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Old 12-30-23, 12:38 PM
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Got any street views?
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Old 12-30-23, 05:58 PM
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Here in Japan that is easy to determine, in altercations between motor vehicles and cyclists, the motor vehicle is always at fault, regardless of what the cyclist was or wasn’t doing.

Anywhere else, you would be at fault because you are crossing the right-of-way, and are required to wait for any vehicles traveling upon it, whether you can see them or not.
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Old 12-30-23, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CrowSeph
So... who's fault?
Who's at fault for what?
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Old 12-30-23, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Who's at fault for what?
The OP reported a near miss, and car C passed him before he was fully in the lane. I suppose the question is hypothetical and assumes that there would have been a collision, as he completed the turn into the lane.
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Old 02-01-24, 09:01 AM
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I would have turned right on the road marked E90, turned my bike a bit perpendicular in the OL around where that triangle grass shape is, so I could have a better view of both lanes. Then when it was clear, cross the road. I assume that was the goal of the OP.
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