Man attacks 2 cyclists
 

This happened local to me and it's kind of scary......
LINK.... https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articl...022903385.html

I'm surprised more cyclists don't carry something for self defense. Pepper gel works quite well. Once a motorist exits the protection of their metal cage they lose any advantage they might have had.

No, they still have a big advantage. They’ve got access to all kinds of things that could be used as a weapon and, if you’re wearing cycling shoes, they are a lot more mobile than you are.

But you can't run away either. Whether on foot or via your bike. They can just get back in their vehicle and chase you. Hence why having something on you is better than nothing. Even if they're carrying something, they've given up their most effective weapon by leaving the vehicle.

They still have an advantage if they leave their vehicle. That's the point.

Did you read the article and what the lawmen had to do in order to non-lethally subdue this deranged character who apparently felt no pain? What "effective" weapon do you suggest that bicyclists carry for such situations?

I did, but using hindsight isn't useful. The cyclists didn't know if the perpetrator would be resistant to tear gas or OC spray, but against the vast majority of attackers pepper gel will work.

The hair due on that clown looks crazy. I carry halt and a 13oz can of bear spray. I have used either or on animals but never on people. For people who don't move on after being stupid I find the front wheel of my bicycle to be quite effective.

What happened to all your huffy posts on C&V? They were great.

Just because a motorist exits their vehicle doesn't mean that they are at a disadvantage. You have no idea what a motorist may be carrying inside their vehicle. It could be a steel pipe, a baseball bat, a tire iron, a cheater bar, a hammer, an axe, a machete, a knife etc. All of those are very effective weapons and even if you carry a pepper spray it would still be very hard to defend yourself against an armed attacker who is motivated and determined to hurt you.

This is just wishful thinking and not reality.

Is it really that simple. ?Have you actually been in a real situation where you had to defend yourself with pepper spray against an attacker ?.

No, but I have had to defend myself (fist fight). I suspect what you might be thinking: "Then how can you know pepper gel will work?" That's because there are countless examples online of people defending themselves with it and not just in cycling-specific scenarios. If it wasn't effective on the vast majority of opponents, people wouldn't buy it. At the very least it would have very low average review scores from whichever online stores sell it.

I recommend pepper gel because it's the best all-around defense tool when considering multiple factors. A gun will stop an attacker much more soundly, but it comes with obvious legal problems. Even if you justifiably use it, you still might have an expensive court battle to clear yourself of any charges. There is also nothing stopping the attacker (or their family in case of death) from suing you, and your homeowners insurance may not cover you for such a claim.

Knives? They're horrible self defense weapons unless you have formal training. They can slip and cut you instead, and they're only good at close range. They also come with similar legal problems as guns.

A kubotan would also work and doesn't carry the legal baggage, but like a knife it can only be used at close range. Pepper gel is easy to carry, easy to draw, works on most opponents, works at medium range, doesn't get blown by the wind like standard spray, and doesn't carry the legal problems of guns and knives.

Their body is completely protected while they are still inside the motor vehicle. When they exit they are exposed, and unlike you they're not wearing a helmet to protect their skull. And yes, you don't know what they could be carrying. However, they also don't know if you're carrying anything. Granted, it probably won't be something large like a bat or pipe, but there are plenty of things cyclists can (and often do) carry which are unseen.

I don't think management wants us talking about certain tools on this site, but some tools can be quite effective, especially if the person using them has extensive training and education in their use.

Yes it does. They are at a huge legal disadvantage if things go sideways.

Legal disadvantage can also apply to the person defending themselves against an attacker. It all depends how much force you use to repel an attacker or what type of object you use to defend yourself with. One poster here mentioned pepper gel or pepper spray. I can tell you that here in Ontario, Canada it is illegal to use pepper spray for self-defence against a human attacker. You can legally purchase pepper spray and use it against a bear attack or dog attack but you can't use it against a human attacker and if you do then you are putting yourself at a legal disadvantage.

We all have a right to travel down the road unmolested. Be observant and be prepared.

+1. Definitely know your local laws. Pepper Spray is not legal everywhere but some places in the US you could even shoot someone under the Stand Your Ground laws in certain situations.

I didn't think to apply the laws of Zimbabwe to the US resident's comment about something that happened in the US. Rest assured, in the USA in an altercation between a motorist who exits the vehicle and a bicyclist, the motorist is going to have a hard time legally justifying why they left the vehicle.

What does this incident have to do with cycling safety, really?

Are we going to start to post articles about house fires if we find out the homeowner had a bike?

As cyclists, it's not unusual for us to face physical/safety threats because we dare to be on motorist's roads. Should we assume that had the driver not encountered the cyclists, he would have done the same thing to the next motorist he encounters? To me, it seems obvious that because they were cyclists, they were assaulted.

So? Does anyone think there is a nationwide scourge of drivers getting out of their vehicles to assault cyclists?

This is one isolated incident, but you guys want to talk about it like its a major trend worthy of a universal response by cyclists. Meanwhile, there are groups that do face actual systemic attacks, and there is the general risk that everyone bears of random violence that is unrelated to lycra shorts. But neither of those categories are cycling related.


If folks want to talk about self defense for those riding with minimal gear - great idea. Pepper spray/gel is good for dogs as well. Your bike can also be used as a barrier, like how riot cops use them. Frame pumps are useful, too. But this incident contains no general lessons about common driver behavior or common preparations cyclists should make because they are cycling. It seems more like the tendency on this board for cyclists to feel as if they are some special group of beleaguered citizens that are targets of massive levels of discrimination. It is weird.

He also weaponized his vehicle. Sadly, it happens from time to time. Seems like there was another incident just last month in GA. As I am sure you are aware, it's not the ordinary that typically makes for interesting discussion. I could tell a story about how a motorist pulled a left turn in front of me Monday, and it probably wouldn't interest many people even though it's a common problem. FWIW there are a lot of shockingly unhealthy attitudes toward cyclists, and I can't help but believe those attitudes fuel behaviors such as the subject of this thread. The lesson here. There are mean people out there. There are criminals. Cyclists do get intentionally targeted because they are cyclists. There's not much you can do to defend yourself against someone weaponizing a car. There is something you can do about someone who gets out. Riders should have a mental plan and perhaps tools. A rider shouldn't wait until the moment it happens to develop a plan. Simply riding away may be the best defense/safety measure if it's an available option. It may be the option I choose based on the whole of the circumstances. It won't be my only option.

Driver's using their cars as weapons have absolutely nothing to do with this topic. Weapons are not useful against cars.

I carry pepper spray. After extensive research, I narrowed it down to POM pepper spray. As a daily bike commuter, for the past 2 years, I always keep it in the front pocket of my safety vest whenever I ride. As crazy as it sounds, I frequently ride 15-plus miles of heavily wooded trails after 9 p.m., a time when I rarely see other pedestrians. (Again, as crazy as it sounds) In addition to the pepper spray, I carry a folding pocket knife at night, for self-defense. While I am not concerned about motorists, I am always prepared to defend myself against a random stranger who might emerge from the trees to try to rob me. My preparation stems from the fact that I am a survivor of armed robbery in the past. Ironically, that incident happened while I was sitting in my parked car in a busy downtown area with lots of people walking nearby.

I am about to order a new POM pepper spray. I've heard they lose their potency after about 2 years.

A good pepper spray should blind an attacker. I've never used mine, but I've seen others use it, so I expect it to be effective.