Are cars making people into sociopaths?
Via TreeHugger.com:
The Anti-Social Bastards in our Midst George Monbiot of the Guardian [...] suggests that ".the extreme libertarianism now beginning to take hold here begins on the road. When you drive, society becomes an obstacle. Pedestrians, bicycles, traffic calming, speed limits, the law: all become a nuisance to be wished away. The more you drive, the more bloody-minded and individualistic you become. |
Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?
|
Originally Posted by TuckertonRR
Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?
At least take this OT moralizing and preaching about the evils of everybody else's bad habits to more appropriate forums such as: Foo - for Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject. Politics & Religion - Discussion of two very hot topics, politics and religion. Jokes & Humor - Life sucks without humor. Post your best (and worst) jokes here. |
Originally Posted by TuckertonRR
Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?
|
The tirades against "neo-libertarianism", etc. were hot air. OTH, the quotes from Jeremy Clarkson and reports of vandalism to speed cameras were cautionary. I think it worth following up, and wouldn't have noticed if the post had been under Politics.
|
I wouldn't call it libertarianism, with regard to bicycles, its unbridled arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war.
Car drivers are the epitome of its "all mine and I want it now". They have to have the biggest, fastest car, to impress everyone about how they've made it big, reluctance to share the road with anyone, especially cyclists since, of course, they are the coolest, most important people in the world, and its a class thing because they percieve cyclists as street people or losers who can't afford a car. Well, I guess its just a microcosm of the way we treat the rest of the world. Our foriegn policy is driven by arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war. We have learned well from our leaders. |
The original quote does seem to hit a large number of nails square on the head!
|
To be clear, I don't believe at least half of what this guy says, but I do think he has some good points. Something scary DOES happen to many people when they get into a car. People who would be very courteous in line at the supermarket can become practically (or actually) homicidal. I think it's worth thinking about why, and keeping the phenomenon in mind when thinking about advocating cycling rights, and when confronting drivers.
|
Originally Posted by San Rensho
Car drivers are the epitome of its "all mine and I want it now". They have to have the biggest, fastest car, to impress everyone about how they've made it big, reluctance to share the road with anyone, especially cyclists since, of course, they are the coolest, most important people in the world, and its a class thing because they percieve cyclists as street people or losers who can't afford a car.
|
I (a big anti-car fanatic) don't believe that cars make people into socioaths. I believe that a few people express their psychopathology through automobiles. Others choose guns, religion, politics and, yes, bicycles.
|
Well last week the Department for Transport published the results of the study it had commissioned into the efficacy of its speed cameras(3). It found that the number of drivers speeding down the roads where fixed cameras had been installed fell by 70%, and the number exceeding the speed limit by more than 15mph dropped by 91%. As a result, 42% fewer people were killed or seriously injured in those places than were killed or injured on the same stretches before the cameras were erected. |
Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.
I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute. Thanks Charles |
Originally Posted by webist
Does this obvious overly generalized tirade apply equally to drivers of Priuses by Toyota, or Mini Coopers by BMW or the Chrysler PT Cruiser? Also, I might ask, does your generalization apply also to cyclists when they get behind the steering wheel of a car? Or, as so often happens with fanatics, are you exaggerating a bit? :mad:
|
Originally Posted by Bianchiriderlon
Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.
I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute. Thanks Charles |
I really wasn't trying to troll with this posting. I genuinely think it's interesting to think about. However, it appears that some people are unfamiliar with the concept of discussing different points of view without resorting to yelling and hyperbole.
|
+10 :) Exactly.
Originally Posted by San Rensho
I wouldn't call it libertarianism, with regard to bicycles, its unbridled arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war.
Car drivers are the epitome of its "all mine and I want it now". They have to have the biggest, fastest car, to impress everyone about how they've made it big, reluctance to share the road with anyone, especially cyclists since, of course, they are the coolest, most important people in the world, and its a class thing because they percieve cyclists as street people or losers who can't afford a car. Well, I guess its just a microcosm of the way we treat the rest of the world. Our foriegn policy is driven by arrogance, vanity, selfishness and class war. We have learned well from our leaders. |
If it was posted on a car interest board it would be trolling.
But here, on a cycling advocacy board, it is an opening for good dialoge, as dangerous drivers are about the #1 concern of me and many other cyclists and would be cyclists.
Originally Posted by Bianchiriderlon
Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.
I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute. Thanks Charles |
Originally Posted by TuckertonRR
Shouldn't this be in the car-free forum?
This has been a topic in the car free forum. For my lengthy wordy response to this topic go to this link: Please explain the contempt (thread)... |
Originally Posted by Bianchiriderlon
Interesting "Troll Bait." Certain topics can bring out the best - and the worst - in otherwise gentle people. I see trolling and "rude car culture" as being structually related through a sense of anonimity offered by seclusion. Whether it be seclusion in the car or seclusion on the web, similar outcomes are observed.
I am beginning to undertake psychological research on "Internet Trolling." My goal is to publish an academic paper. I would appreciate hearing accounts from individuals concerning this topic. If willing to help, please email me off list. Copies of the final paper will be emailed to those who contribute. Thanks Charles Unfortunately, the anonymity of driving a car allows us physically assualt and endanger others in ways that we would never do (I hope) outside of a car. The latter is much more dangerous. |
Originally Posted by buzzman
This has been a topic in the car free forum. For my lengthy wordy response to this topic go to this link:
Please explain the contempt (thread)... |
Originally Posted by Roody
I (a big anti-car fanatic) don't believe that cars make people into socioaths. I believe that a few people express their psychopathology through automobiles. Others choose guns, religion, politics and, yes, bicycles.
|
Originally Posted by chipcom
What? Anybody got a BS translator handy?
Actually, I see his point. How much have everyone here said in anoymity which they would not have said to someone's face? Same goes with the anoymity stemming from driving. When people cannot interact with another person (or animal, for that matter) they can lose the distinction between "person" and "thing." This allows for abuse (either physical or verbal) which would not be proper between two people to occur as if the subject was an inanimate object. Sounds like a worthy sociology paper to me. |
Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff
Yea, but all it ever spits out is gibberish. :D
Actually, I see his point. How much have everyone here said in anoymity which they would not have said to someone's face? Same goes with the anoymity stemming from driving. When people cannot interact with another person (or animal, for that matter) they can lose the distinction between "person" and "thing." This allows for abuse (either physical or verbal) which would not be proper between two people to occur as if the subject was an inanimate object. Sounds like a worthy sociology paper to me. Thx Charles |
It's not the cars, it the "rat race". Rush rush ! Nobody has any patience anymore.
jw |
No, a certain number of people are already Sociopaths and some of these people drive, more people on the road, more sociopaths driving, not more people being turned into sociopaths. Trust me if everyone had to ride you'd notice all of the cycling sociopaths too. There just currently aren't enough of them on the road yet for us to notice.
|
Originally Posted by scarry
If it was posted on a car interest board it would be trolling.
But here, on a cycling advocacy board, it is an opening for good dialoge, as dangerous drivers are about the #1 concern of me and many other cyclists and would be cyclists. However, it has a great deal of face validity "out there" in the real world. Ask ten people to define "sociopath" and you'll get ten definitions. The one point upon mostly everyone can agree is that the "sociopaths" are mean and nasty folks. (This actually flies in the face of the fact that many top leaders of government and industry fit the (admittedly poor) definition of the term.) So, when I see the use of "sociopath" in the topic line of a thread, my radar goes off. I immediately ask, "what does this mean?" Any technical term, if not well defined, results in, well, ~ nothing. The question that arises is, then, what is the OP's intent. Is the question genuine, or is there an attempt (possibly unconscious) to raise the readers' level of discomfort? If so, does that meet the test of a "troll?" Part of my work will be to provide operational definitions of trolling, among other things. I do not want to hijack this thread, I am merely seeking assistance. Cheers Charles |
Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
George Monbiot of the Guardian [...]The more you drive, the more bloody-minded and individualistic you become.
Humans are pack animals, and like other pack animals we need cues to establish empathy with others. In the absence of those cues - e.g. isolated in a car or at a keyboard - other people become non-persons, just TV characters observed through the windshield. |
Originally Posted by geog_dash
Jeremy Clarkson
|
Originally Posted by Bianchiriderlon
Well, sure it would be. One of the things I am looking for are postings that contain incendiary language. Keep in mind that what is incendiary to one is not necessarily incendiary to all. The use of the term "sociopath" is interesting. Psychologists don't want responsibility for the (former) psychopaths because they don't fit neatly into existing theories. They have handed them off to the sociologists. However, the sociologists are equally uninterested as they do not deal with individuals' behaviour. The term could be understood to be ill-defined within social science.
However, it has a great deal of face validity "out there" in the real world. Ask ten people to define "sociopath" and you'll get ten definitions. The one point upon mostly everyone can agree is that the "sociopaths" are mean and nasty folks. (This actually flies in the face of the fact that many top leaders of government and industry fit the (admittedly poor) definition of the term.) So, when I see the use of "sociopath" in the topic line of a thread, my radar goes off. I immediately ask, "what does this mean?" Any technical term, if not well defined, results in, well, ~ nothing. The question that arises is, then, what is the OP's intent. Is the question genuine, or is there an attempt (possibly unconscious) to raise the readers' level of discomfort? If so, does that meet the test of a "troll?" Part of my work will be to provide operational definitions of trolling, among other things. I do not want to hijack this thread, I am merely seeking assistance. Cheers Charles Tell me one thing. Do you even own a bicycle? BTW, if you're planning on looking up articles in pshchology and psychiatry journals, it would help if you knew the right term for the phemomenon you're "studying." The terms psychopathy and sociopathy were replaced many years ago. Now they call it antisocial personality disorder. And psychiatrists and psychologists don't ignore it. They study it and treat it. |
Originally Posted by Roody
The terms psychopathy and sociopathy were replaced many years ago. Now they call it antisocial personality disorder. And psychiatrists and psychologists don't ignore it. They study it and treat it.
That's exactly my point. Anyway, the terminology is broader than you think. We now refer to such conditions as "ODD" (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) and CD (Conduct Disorder). I am not a "little professor" or a professor of any description. I leave that up to the wife. I am a counsellor in private practice. BTW, the term in use, "sociopath" was not mine. It was posed by the OP. Cheers Charles ps I own five bikes and ride all of them (but not at the same time! :) |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:23 AM. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.