Safety, Access and Equality for Bicyclists
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Safety, Access and Equality for Bicyclists
Since y'all seem to think that Critical Mass is such a bad idea (although I get the impression that you're not really listening to what I have to say and have little first-hand experience, just opinions [and you know what they say about opinions...]); I'd like for whoever cares to, to please answer the following two questions for the good of the order. I've got my own ideas what the issues and the potential answers are, and in case you were wondering, it doesn't involve Critical Mass--I can and do think beyond that, so please focus on the issues and leave Critical Mass out of your answer. Thanks!
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals when it comes to their driving habits, and why is all the rude and inappropriate motoring they do (including routine violation of speed limits, and killing 40,000+ of themselves and their fellow citizens each year in this country with their vehicles) generally considered socially acceptable behavior; whereas, cyclists are typically treated as a class, and the rude and inappropriate behavior of a few cyclists (which typically kills no one and generally only poses a risk to the cyclist him/her self) is then projected onto ALL cyclists, and used as an excuse to discriminate against ALL cyclists??
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals when it comes to their driving habits, and why is all the rude and inappropriate motoring they do (including routine violation of speed limits, and killing 40,000+ of themselves and their fellow citizens each year in this country with their vehicles) generally considered socially acceptable behavior; whereas, cyclists are typically treated as a class, and the rude and inappropriate behavior of a few cyclists (which typically kills no one and generally only poses a risk to the cyclist him/her self) is then projected onto ALL cyclists, and used as an excuse to discriminate against ALL cyclists??
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
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Originally posted by randya
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals
When you divide people into "us" and "them" you automatically become one of "them".
Originally posted by randya
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling
If you want to get involved, I would suggest looking at The League of American Bicyclists or some other similar organisation. Some local bike organisations are also excellent. One such in my area is the Cascade Bicycle Club.
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"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
#3
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Originally posted by randya
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals when it comes to their driving habits, and why is all the rude and inappropriate motoring they do (including routine violation of speed limits, and killing 40,000+ of themselves and their fellow citizens each year in this country with their vehicles) generally considered socially acceptable behavior;
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals when it comes to their driving habits, and why is all the rude and inappropriate motoring they do (including routine violation of speed limits, and killing 40,000+ of themselves and their fellow citizens each year in this country with their vehicles) generally considered socially acceptable behavior;
Originally posted by randya
whereas, cyclists are typically treated as a class, and the rude and inappropriate behavior of a few cyclists (which typically kills no one and generally only poses a risk to the cyclist him/her self) is then projected onto ALL cyclists, and used as an excuse to discriminate against ALL cyclists??
whereas, cyclists are typically treated as a class, and the rude and inappropriate behavior of a few cyclists (which typically kills no one and generally only poses a risk to the cyclist him/her self) is then projected onto ALL cyclists, and used as an excuse to discriminate against ALL cyclists??
Any generalisation I could make about motorists is most likely going to be equally true of cyclists.
Originally posted by randya
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
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Just do what I do, ride my bike and forget about that bull*****. It doesn't matter how much I protest and gesticulate about the ever increasing use of motor vehicles and the problems they cause, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE!
CHEERS.
Mark
CHEERS.
Mark
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1. I disagree that they are treated as individuals. Motorists are treated as a group also. The difference is that the group of motorists by purchase of cars, fuel road tax etc ise a major spender in the economy, and a major source of tax revenue, and employment. Cyclists are not seen as such. At present the ecological problems caused by cars (pollution, damage to the physical environment, gridlock) is not seen by the government or the people as outweighing the "benefits" of tax revenue, employment, freedom of travel. That day will surely come. Look at the fuss over the congestion charge in London, but people have grudgingly accepted it.
2. Get more bikes on the road. this makes the road safer (motorists see more bikes so adapt their driving), and would lead to changes in road design to accomodate cyclists. My own view is that the only way forward is a root and branch rethink of transport and road design encompassing increases in public transport standards and availability, punitive taxation of non essential motor use, banning motorists from all town centres (other than essential use), tax breaks to employers for cycle facilities, stiffer laws for enforcement of driving (and cycling) leading to accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, the encouragement (through the use of "bike trains" ) of cycling to school.
I have no grudge against Critical Mass. I consider myself to be a cycling advocate as an assertive commuter, who refuses to be browbeaten or intimidated by some drivers. I will assert my right to use "fast roads" and don't agree that the way to improve safety is to remove cyclists from them.
I think, however, that as the majority of onlookers have no wish to lose their cars or have their "right" (as they see it) to use them restricted, some CM tactics (Running a group through red lights - stopping traffic etc) has a negatve perception and just reinforces the stereotype that all cyclists are vegetarian sandle wearing hippies.
I'm a 42 year old professional, vegetarian, not a hippie,I care about my environment, I don't own any sandals (except my spd ones), and think I'm fairly representative of many cyclists.
We as a family have 2 cars, combined mileage about 10000 per year (not bad considering we live in a village with poor public transport and one small newsagent) and we use bikes and public transport where possible, our small sports car if we are together going out, and our eatate if we need to take the dogs somewhere.
However we are simply balancing out the 2-Range Rover family who put their dog in the boot and drive 500 yards (really!) to the marina, then let the dog out for a walk!, and afterwards drive back.
The best cycling advocacy is to get out and do it. pressurise government, not the car drivers themselves. Doing the latter just stirs up resentment. the balance is tipping our way.
2. Get more bikes on the road. this makes the road safer (motorists see more bikes so adapt their driving), and would lead to changes in road design to accomodate cyclists. My own view is that the only way forward is a root and branch rethink of transport and road design encompassing increases in public transport standards and availability, punitive taxation of non essential motor use, banning motorists from all town centres (other than essential use), tax breaks to employers for cycle facilities, stiffer laws for enforcement of driving (and cycling) leading to accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians, the encouragement (through the use of "bike trains" ) of cycling to school.
I have no grudge against Critical Mass. I consider myself to be a cycling advocate as an assertive commuter, who refuses to be browbeaten or intimidated by some drivers. I will assert my right to use "fast roads" and don't agree that the way to improve safety is to remove cyclists from them.
I think, however, that as the majority of onlookers have no wish to lose their cars or have their "right" (as they see it) to use them restricted, some CM tactics (Running a group through red lights - stopping traffic etc) has a negatve perception and just reinforces the stereotype that all cyclists are vegetarian sandle wearing hippies.
I'm a 42 year old professional, vegetarian, not a hippie,I care about my environment, I don't own any sandals (except my spd ones), and think I'm fairly representative of many cyclists.
We as a family have 2 cars, combined mileage about 10000 per year (not bad considering we live in a village with poor public transport and one small newsagent) and we use bikes and public transport where possible, our small sports car if we are together going out, and our eatate if we need to take the dogs somewhere.
However we are simply balancing out the 2-Range Rover family who put their dog in the boot and drive 500 yards (really!) to the marina, then let the dog out for a walk!, and afterwards drive back.
The best cycling advocacy is to get out and do it. pressurise government, not the car drivers themselves. Doing the latter just stirs up resentment. the balance is tipping our way.
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1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
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plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens
1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
#6
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well, first --- i am part of the minority on this forum who thinks that critical mass is not so bad --- yes, there may be some negative points and there could be some improvements, but i think all and all it is a good thing and i have participated in a few different cities and might again.
as to the first quesiton: i think i pretty much agree with chewa and others --- that motorists are sometimes treated as a group, sometime as inidividuals as are cyclists... and the main difference here is:
a) driving is "accepted" as normal behavior and cycling as a means of REAL transport is not (it should be of coure)
b) drivers and the auto industry represent a huge market. cycling is much smaller and the recreation segment (road racing, touring and mountain biking) is MUCH larger and earns MUCH more money than bike commuting.
actually, the simplicity and economy of cycle commuting is one of the things that makes it difficult to gain popularity in our money-driven economy: yes, it's great and beautiful that cycling is cheap and efficient and has few costs, but leaves little room for companies to make money so no one with big bucks is adverising and pushing for increased bike commuting. you don't need a high-tech bike to bike commute, nor do you need a new one avery 2 years, or a plethora of accessories like car stereo, gas, leather seats, etc... you can also sort of see this in that on the average, the bicycle commuter (the middle-aged professional is actually more common than the homeless guy or DUI --- although there are a lot of college student cyclists) tends to be more educated and more likely to look at things as they are rather than just what society and advertising pushes (ok, that could be a controversial statement, hopefully it sort of makes sense)
as to what to do to improve cycling: that's a good question and a difficult one that i ask myself a lot.
* obviously getting more people to cycle is the best way, but how do we best do that?
* and working through advocacy groups to get the government to listen to cyclists and their needs is also important
--> but is it ever really going to change?
i think - yes and no.
yes, things will change, and the era of excessive private motor vehicle use for everything wil come to an end in my lifetime b/c traffic and parking and infrastructure costs will just not allow it to increase forever and people will evetually be fed up and want alternatives -- change to _something_ else will happen quickly i believe.
* unfortunately most people these days are just too lazy to convert to cycling, so unless the health and fitness crazy REALLY catches on and people do it for their health, cycle commuting will unfortunately stay a fringe activity.
i think some kind of less polluting, smaller infrastructure but still private "vehicle" will supplant the full-size auto some time the next 20-30 years -- maybe combined with some kind of transit/rail system where each person takes his little "pod" onto the system soas not to have to mingle with the "undesirables" and keep his own "luxury and convenience". the auto will probably still be use for rural transport, but not in the cities or in most communities where people live.
hopefully cycling will continue to find a place through all of the laziness of society.
it is a beautiful and efficient mode of transport!
as to the first quesiton: i think i pretty much agree with chewa and others --- that motorists are sometimes treated as a group, sometime as inidividuals as are cyclists... and the main difference here is:
a) driving is "accepted" as normal behavior and cycling as a means of REAL transport is not (it should be of coure)
b) drivers and the auto industry represent a huge market. cycling is much smaller and the recreation segment (road racing, touring and mountain biking) is MUCH larger and earns MUCH more money than bike commuting.
actually, the simplicity and economy of cycle commuting is one of the things that makes it difficult to gain popularity in our money-driven economy: yes, it's great and beautiful that cycling is cheap and efficient and has few costs, but leaves little room for companies to make money so no one with big bucks is adverising and pushing for increased bike commuting. you don't need a high-tech bike to bike commute, nor do you need a new one avery 2 years, or a plethora of accessories like car stereo, gas, leather seats, etc... you can also sort of see this in that on the average, the bicycle commuter (the middle-aged professional is actually more common than the homeless guy or DUI --- although there are a lot of college student cyclists) tends to be more educated and more likely to look at things as they are rather than just what society and advertising pushes (ok, that could be a controversial statement, hopefully it sort of makes sense)
as to what to do to improve cycling: that's a good question and a difficult one that i ask myself a lot.
* obviously getting more people to cycle is the best way, but how do we best do that?
* and working through advocacy groups to get the government to listen to cyclists and their needs is also important
--> but is it ever really going to change?
i think - yes and no.
yes, things will change, and the era of excessive private motor vehicle use for everything wil come to an end in my lifetime b/c traffic and parking and infrastructure costs will just not allow it to increase forever and people will evetually be fed up and want alternatives -- change to _something_ else will happen quickly i believe.
* unfortunately most people these days are just too lazy to convert to cycling, so unless the health and fitness crazy REALLY catches on and people do it for their health, cycle commuting will unfortunately stay a fringe activity.
i think some kind of less polluting, smaller infrastructure but still private "vehicle" will supplant the full-size auto some time the next 20-30 years -- maybe combined with some kind of transit/rail system where each person takes his little "pod" onto the system soas not to have to mingle with the "undesirables" and keep his own "luxury and convenience". the auto will probably still be use for rural transport, but not in the cities or in most communities where people live.
hopefully cycling will continue to find a place through all of the laziness of society.
it is a beautiful and efficient mode of transport!
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oh i guess i wasn't quite done...
i think cycling will either:
1) become a "cool" activity that promotes health and wise treatment of the environment ---- MAYBE possible if the health and insurance industry latches on to cycling as a way to save billions of dollars and commits to major advertising --- sadly advertising gets things done in our image-conscious money-driven soceity
2) or continue to become a fringe activity not understood by the "common" man except as a toy: recreational riding on the bike path around the lake --- and more and more road facilities will be constrcuted without cyclists in mind and we will have to really fight for our rights to use the "auto infrastrcuture"
but (especially in the US) the likelihood of bicycle commuting becoming a truly mainstream activity seen as a viable alternative to the auto is unlikely (i mean Americans would choose the motor scooter before the bike, but even that is too "inconvenient" and not "sexy" and "luxurious" enough for the average Joe)
i think cycling will either:
1) become a "cool" activity that promotes health and wise treatment of the environment ---- MAYBE possible if the health and insurance industry latches on to cycling as a way to save billions of dollars and commits to major advertising --- sadly advertising gets things done in our image-conscious money-driven soceity
2) or continue to become a fringe activity not understood by the "common" man except as a toy: recreational riding on the bike path around the lake --- and more and more road facilities will be constrcuted without cyclists in mind and we will have to really fight for our rights to use the "auto infrastrcuture"
but (especially in the US) the likelihood of bicycle commuting becoming a truly mainstream activity seen as a viable alternative to the auto is unlikely (i mean Americans would choose the motor scooter before the bike, but even that is too "inconvenient" and not "sexy" and "luxurious" enough for the average Joe)
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1) People like to categorize and generalize, and if a person has objections to cyclists being on the road, they'll generalize the behavior of inept cyclists to all cyclists. It's really not a lot different from many people's stereotypes of motorists (on one list I'm on an advocate of segregating cyclists from motorists informed me that "motorists are homicidal". An assertion I think is a bit over the top, to put it mildly).
2) Behave as a well trained operator of a vehicle, and insist that other cyclists do the same. Publicize and defend the right of lawful cyclists to use the roads. I understand the appeal of civil disobedience to the supporters of Critical Mass, but in this instance I think the strategy is inept and murky. What's the point? That cyclists are capable of creating chaotic conditions for the residents of a city?
2) Behave as a well trained operator of a vehicle, and insist that other cyclists do the same. Publicize and defend the right of lawful cyclists to use the roads. I understand the appeal of civil disobedience to the supporters of Critical Mass, but in this instance I think the strategy is inept and murky. What's the point? That cyclists are capable of creating chaotic conditions for the residents of a city?
#9
Every lane is a bike lane
Originally posted by randya
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals when it comes to their driving habits, and why is all the rude and inappropriate motoring they do (including routine violation of speed limits, and killing 40,000+ of themselves and their fellow citizens each year in this country with their vehicles) generally considered socially acceptable behavior; whereas, cyclists are typically treated as a class, and the rude and inappropriate behavior of a few cyclists (which typically kills no one and generally only poses a risk to the cyclist him/her self) is then projected onto ALL cyclists, and used as an excuse to discriminate against ALL cyclists??
1. Why are motorists treated as individuals when it comes to their driving habits, and why is all the rude and inappropriate motoring they do (including routine violation of speed limits, and killing 40,000+ of themselves and their fellow citizens each year in this country with their vehicles) generally considered socially acceptable behavior; whereas, cyclists are typically treated as a class, and the rude and inappropriate behavior of a few cyclists (which typically kills no one and generally only poses a risk to the cyclist him/her self) is then projected onto ALL cyclists, and used as an excuse to discriminate against ALL cyclists??
Originally posted by randya
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
I never hear any cycling advocates mention the good things about cycling. Where are the "Reduce your gas bills" or "Don't get stuck in traffic" campaigns? Nobody ever mentions the advantages of using a bike for transport. Maybe trying a different promotional tool might be a little more effective. I really don't think it could fare any worse than what we do now.
I also agree with the others who say operate your bike in a lawful vehicular manner. In other words, show the world that transporational cycling is possible and practical. This is something that critical mass does not do.
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That is all.
#10
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I think we all agree that promoting more cycling by being out there and riding lawfully is the best way to gain acceptance. And this is why I disagree with the tactics of CM which often result in people being greeting by police in riot gear and the cyclists getting hauled away in large windowless vehicles. Someone looking at this is going to think twice in being associated with or participating in an activity that ends up in a night in jail. Additionally, the amount of respect they'll have for other cyclists deminishes. Hardcore zealots may like CM and believe in the cause all they want but I have a feeling that it doesn't change the perception by much of the real-world population who, like the people of villages facing the other end of a Viking's sword, don't really view CMers as heros who deserve ascension to Valhalla in burning funeral boats upon their deaths. To them Critical Mass is just Critical A$$.
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"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte
"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
#11
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Originally posted by Chris L
I never hear any cycling advocates mention the good things about cycling. Where are the "Reduce your gas bills" or "Don't get stuck in traffic" campaigns? Nobody ever mentions the advantages of using a bike for transport. Maybe trying a different promotional tool might be a little more effective. I really don't think it could fare any worse than what we do now.
I never hear any cycling advocates mention the good things about cycling. Where are the "Reduce your gas bills" or "Don't get stuck in traffic" campaigns? Nobody ever mentions the advantages of using a bike for transport. Maybe trying a different promotional tool might be a little more effective. I really don't think it could fare any worse than what we do now.
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"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
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"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
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Khuon, one of the bike stores in your city--R&E--used to sell a cheap, t-shirt style jersey with the slogan, "One More Parking Space." Every bike organization in the country ought to steal that one!
#13
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Originally posted by oscaregg
Khuon, one of the bike stores in your city--R&E--used to sell a cheap, t-shirt style jersey with the slogan, "One More Parking Space." Every bike organization in the country ought to steal that one!
Khuon, one of the bike stores in your city--R&E--used to sell a cheap, t-shirt style jersey with the slogan, "One More Parking Space." Every bike organization in the country ought to steal that one!
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"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
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"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122
#14
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The ultimate act of advocacy is: RIDING YOUR BIKE!!!
The more people that ride, the more people will accept cycling as a viable form of transportation. Particularly when they see cyclists obviously using their bikes for transportation with panniers or what not carrying their stuff to work, or home from the grocery.
As a carfree, full-time bike commuter, I enjoy answering questions from co-workers, neighbors, etc. about my bike commuting. Many had never previously given it a thought (that one could use a bike for transportation). While most will never take up bike commuting, just the fact that they now realize that some do helps to promote acceptance on the roadway.
From time to time, I have people from work that I do not know, seek me out to ask questions about bike commuting or cycling in general. Everyone of our 3,000+ employees seems to know about "that guy that rides to work." That's saying something.
Dave
The more people that ride, the more people will accept cycling as a viable form of transportation. Particularly when they see cyclists obviously using their bikes for transportation with panniers or what not carrying their stuff to work, or home from the grocery.
As a carfree, full-time bike commuter, I enjoy answering questions from co-workers, neighbors, etc. about my bike commuting. Many had never previously given it a thought (that one could use a bike for transportation). While most will never take up bike commuting, just the fact that they now realize that some do helps to promote acceptance on the roadway.
From time to time, I have people from work that I do not know, seek me out to ask questions about bike commuting or cycling in general. Everyone of our 3,000+ employees seems to know about "that guy that rides to work." That's saying something.
Dave
#15
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Originally posted by randya
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
2. What, in your opinion, is the quickest and/or best way to gain acceptance for bicycles and bicycling as a viable mode of transportation--and by that I mean safe access to and equality with motor vehicles on all public roads (I'll grant the exception of limited access highways), adequate end-of-trip facilities, and societal acceptance by government at all levels, the business community, the media and the general public?
It has some useful, but limited aspects of our overall transportation matrix that it can fill. But with none of the essential safety and signaling features that are typical of other vehicles on the road (turn signals, brake lights, etc), I can't see them ever getting the same treatment on the road. Nor are they good for transporting bulky or multiple items such as groceries, etc. Thus you must have a car unless you are in a city such as Boston or NYC where mass transit is a viable alternative.
To me the key issue is to get people to use their bike (or walk) MORE, and use their cars LESS. That does not require new laws, societal acceptance blah blah blah. It simple requires courtesy, on the part of both cyclists and fellow motorists, without which any kind of transportation is unpleasant.
The only 'societal change' I would make, that i have always advocated on this forum, is for bigger shoulders on ALL roadways.
roughstuff
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Originally posted by khuon
Quickest/best way: Ride your bike in a lawful manner.
Quickest/best way: Ride your bike in a lawful manner.
Originally posted by LarryJ
2) Behave as a well trained operator of a vehicle, and insist that other cyclists do the same.
2) Behave as a well trained operator of a vehicle, and insist that other cyclists do the same.
To me, this means not supporting any group whose major premise is violating the law (in other words, Critical Mass - can you say "corking"?)
Originally posted by LarryJ
Publicize and defend the right of lawful cyclists to use the roads.
Publicize and defend the right of lawful cyclists to use the roads.
Originally posted by LarryJ
I understand the appeal of civil disobedience to the supporters of Critical Mass...
I understand the appeal of civil disobedience to the supporters of Critical Mass...
Originally posted by LarryJ
...but in this instance I think the strategy is inept and murky.
...but in this instance I think the strategy is inept and murky.
Originally posted by Chris L
I also agree with the others who say operate your bike in a lawful vehicular manner. In other words, show the world that transporational cycling is possible and practical. This is something that critical mass does not do.
I also agree with the others who say operate your bike in a lawful vehicular manner. In other words, show the world that transporational cycling is possible and practical. This is something that critical mass does not do.
Current traffic laws give cyclists all the rights of other vehicles. CM's opposition to current traffic laws is nothing short of sheer stupidity. Unfortunately, CM may succeed in getting the current laws changed. How much do you want to bet that the changes will be an improvement?
Originally posted by randya
...please focus on the issues and leave Critical Mass out of your answer.
...please focus on the issues and leave Critical Mass out of your answer.
No offense, but you devoted an entire paragraph to CM in your question, so I guess it's not too surprising that so many people have mentioned CM in their responses. Nice try, but it was hardly reasonable to expect otherwise, especially since you took a shot at anyone with the timerity to diagree with you on CM:
Originally posted by randya
...although I get the impression that you're not really listening to what I have to say...
...although I get the impression that you're not really listening to what I have to say...
Most of the participants in this forum are cyclists for crying out loud (I, myself, have been cycling on a regular basis over 40 years). If we're not convinced, what chance does CM have convincing the general public?
Seriously.
If anyone involed in CM is reading these forums, the comments should be a wake-up call. Clean up your act. Repudiate lawbreaking.
I've said it before; I will say it again:
If CM contiues current tactics, no responsible cyclist should support it.
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"But with none of the essential safety and signaling features that are typical of other vehicles on the road (turn signals, brake lights, etc), I can't see them ever getting the same treatment on the road. Nor are they good for transporting bulky or multiple items such as groceries, etc. Thus you must have a car unless you are in a city such as Boston or NYC where mass transit is a viable alternative."
American bicycle manufacturers leave lights off new bikes for liability reasons, and almost exclusively market a recreational product. European bikes come fully equipped for night and rain riding with lights and fenders, plus bells and often baskets. Human Powered Machines in Eugene, Oregon makes bikes for hauling large loads. See https://www.efn.org/~cat/longhaul.htm They routinely demonstrate these bikes by moving a household by bike, which, I suspect is not altogether uncommon in Europe, either. $50.00 + of groceries can easily be carried in a modest set of panniers, I've been doing it for years.
Beyond that, wide shoulders are fine in the suburbs, but they don't exist in dense inner cities with older, fully developed streets and limited right-of-way widths. Taking the lane/ sharing the road with vehicles is the only way to coexist with motorists in these environments.
American bicycle manufacturers leave lights off new bikes for liability reasons, and almost exclusively market a recreational product. European bikes come fully equipped for night and rain riding with lights and fenders, plus bells and often baskets. Human Powered Machines in Eugene, Oregon makes bikes for hauling large loads. See https://www.efn.org/~cat/longhaul.htm They routinely demonstrate these bikes by moving a household by bike, which, I suspect is not altogether uncommon in Europe, either. $50.00 + of groceries can easily be carried in a modest set of panniers, I've been doing it for years.
Beyond that, wide shoulders are fine in the suburbs, but they don't exist in dense inner cities with older, fully developed streets and limited right-of-way widths. Taking the lane/ sharing the road with vehicles is the only way to coexist with motorists in these environments.
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Promoting cycling starts with being a responsible cyclist.
Obey the rules.
I also make it a point to give a friendly wave to any motorist who gives me adequate room and passes me cautiously or does some other act of consideration for my benefit.
I resist the urge to yell or wave obscene gestures at the a holes ( this has not always been the case as I have in years past invited a few motorists to stop alongside the road for a can of whip ass).
My actions have evolved over the years and I do try not to impede motorized traffic as much as possible.
Obey the rules.
I also make it a point to give a friendly wave to any motorist who gives me adequate room and passes me cautiously or does some other act of consideration for my benefit.
I resist the urge to yell or wave obscene gestures at the a holes ( this has not always been the case as I have in years past invited a few motorists to stop alongside the road for a can of whip ass).
My actions have evolved over the years and I do try not to impede motorized traffic as much as possible.
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Originally posted by Roughstuff
But with respect to number 2: to me, as an avid cyclist and conservationist (not environmentalist), cycling will always remain only a niche form of transportation.
It has some useful, but limited aspects of our overall transportation matrix that it can fill. But with none of the essential safety and signaling features that are typical of other vehicles on the road (turn signals, brake lights, etc), I can't see them ever getting the same treatment on the road. Nor are they good for transporting bulky or multiple items such as groceries, etc. Thus you must have a car unless you are in a city such as Boston or NYC where mass transit is a viable alternative.
But with respect to number 2: to me, as an avid cyclist and conservationist (not environmentalist), cycling will always remain only a niche form of transportation.
It has some useful, but limited aspects of our overall transportation matrix that it can fill. But with none of the essential safety and signaling features that are typical of other vehicles on the road (turn signals, brake lights, etc), I can't see them ever getting the same treatment on the road. Nor are they good for transporting bulky or multiple items such as groceries, etc. Thus you must have a car unless you are in a city such as Boston or NYC where mass transit is a viable alternative.
No, the real REASON (vs. merely the excuses) that most people refuse to use a bike for transportation is simply that THEY ARE TOO LAZY. Why do you think the US (and much of the 'modern' world) is facing such an obesity crisis?
Originally posted by Roughstuff To me the key issue is to get people to use their bike (or walk) MORE, and use their cars LESS. That does not require new laws, societal acceptance blah blah blah. It simple requires courtesy, on the part of both cyclists and fellow motorists, without which any kind of transportation is unpleasant.
The only 'societal change' I would make, that i have always advocated on this forum, is for bigger shoulders on ALL roadways. [/B]
The only 'societal change' I would make, that i have always advocated on this forum, is for bigger shoulders on ALL roadways. [/B]
Dave
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Originally posted by hayneda
Often heard excuses for not using a bike for transportation. But arm/hand signals work just fine, although 'car-like' turn and brake lights can be had if you must decorate your bike up like a car. Dave
Often heard excuses for not using a bike for transportation. But arm/hand signals work just fine, although 'car-like' turn and brake lights can be had if you must decorate your bike up like a car. Dave
The other points you make I agree with. It is personal decisions in my case that affect bike use. I tend to walk any distance less than a few miles; and tend to hop in my car or a local bus for stuff longer than that. I use my bike for touring and training.
roughstuff
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Originally posted by Roughstuff
Hmmmm...not sure about that Dave. The whole problem with hand and arm signals is that they require you to remove your hand from the steering/brake mechanism (in this case the handlebars) JUST AT THE MOMENT you need them the most. Nor, in many cases, can the signal be prolonged; even though it may very well need be.
Hmmmm...not sure about that Dave. The whole problem with hand and arm signals is that they require you to remove your hand from the steering/brake mechanism (in this case the handlebars) JUST AT THE MOMENT you need them the most. Nor, in many cases, can the signal be prolonged; even though it may very well need be.
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[i]Originally posted by JRA
CM's opposition to current traffic laws is nothing short of sheer stupidity.
CM's opposition to current traffic laws is nothing short of sheer stupidity.
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Originally posted by randya
This quote represents your complete misunderstanding of what CM is or stands for. CM is not opposed to traffic laws, it is opposed to (1) traffic laws which favor motorized vehicles over human-powered vehicles,
This quote represents your complete misunderstanding of what CM is or stands for. CM is not opposed to traffic laws, it is opposed to (1) traffic laws which favor motorized vehicles over human-powered vehicles,
Originally posted by randya
(2) the transportation bureaucracy, which does the same,
(2) the transportation bureaucracy, which does the same,
Originally posted by randya
and (3) motorists that are ignorant of existing traffic laws, which is most states (USA) give cyclists the same rights as motorists on public roads.
and (3) motorists that are ignorant of existing traffic laws, which is most states (USA) give cyclists the same rights as motorists on public roads.
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DeadBeef: It's really pointless discussing this with you, since you appear to be in total denial about the status of bicycles, bicyclists and bicycling in the heirachy of current US transportation policy, funding, infrastructure, etc.: DEAD LAST. I've personally sat in countless committee meetings for over ten years listening to a steady stream of traffic engineers, politicians, developers, business 'people', etc., etc., give excuses why this or that CAN'T be done for cyclists. Critical Mass says NO MORE and takes the cyclists' rights movement to the streets. Of course the press coverage is bad and the police are harsh--they're vested in the automobile culture that's driving our civilization into the ground. What have you done lately to promote cycling, really, other than ride your bike meekly along in the gutter and cower before the latest model behemoth SUV bearing down on you and forcing you to yield the right-of-way or die??? You should be thanking CM for standing up for your right to bike safely on the public streets of your town, and not criticizing them. Fat chance this message will ever be heard by deaf ears, though.
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I ride assertively and lawfully. For the most part, cycling for me is as safe as can be. I share the road. Sure I've been squeezed before. Sure I've had encounters with rude or stupid drivers. But I do not see how anything CM does will change that. Are we the underdogs when it comes to the transportation pecking order? I think so but we're not the only ones. We're far down the list but not dead last. Do we have a voice? I think we do in some areas more than others. However, I have yet to see that voice be from Critical Mass. Of all of the positives things I've seen happen for the cycling community, none of them can be attributed to CM. CM does not stand up for my rights for cycling safety. I do. And I do it by riding in a lawful consistant manner.
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