Bekologist

i don't have the links handy, but if YOU were that interested in these things, it is clear as day in statistics from across the world, from countries that have added bike infrastructure over the last decades. increased bicyclist numbers and decreased accident rates.

Even in Portland, Oregon, the cyclist counts have quintupled while the indexed accident rate dropped.

Numbers UP, accidents rate DOWN, from infrastructure.

does kallirego the VC understand the meaning of 'expediency?'

I-Like-To-Bike

Wow! All in one sentence, four VC/Forester Clan buzz words ("novices," "untrained," "unskilled," and "segregated") and one VC/Forester Clan fabricated construct ("when they are led to believe that those facilities make them safer."

How do these "novices" and "untrained/unskilled cyclists" become trained and skilled and therefore worthy of advocay? I am sure the Great Vehicular Cycling Promoter/ Instructor will be dropping that shoe shortly.

Who is the "they," leading the "novices" to falsely believe anything about cycling safety "when segregated facilities are provided?" Certainly you don't mean internet chatterers, or do you?

Bekologist

i'm with Chip; kalirego was registered while HH was on 'vacation' over the holidays. It IS suspect.

kalliergo 

Oh, I'm very interested in these things.

When you make an assertion about something factual, Bekologist, you should expect readers or listeners to ask you for evidence. Telling us that "it is clear as day," without providing any of that evidence, does absolutely nothing to support your assertion.

I-Like-To-Bike

I still think kalirego is just another of the small band of VC proselytizers who are the product of Forester Mind Melding Group Think. Browse through the ChainGuard List; see for yourself there are probaby one or two dozen of 'em. The only difference among them is that some are more far out and extreme than others. But all are dedicated to looking out and advocating only for their tight little clique of so-called "skilled and trained" know-it-alls.

skanking biker

[QUOTE=kalliergo]Well, the devil is in the details. Some of the "as far right as practicable" provisions in state vehicle codes are dangerous, discriminatory and unacceptable. Consider this provision of a model UVC, which would eliminate much of the discrimination and unnecessary danger for cyclists:

§ 11-301 Drive on right side of roadway—exceptions

(b) Upon all roadways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal and lawful speed of traffic at the
time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available
for traffic, or far enough to the right to allow overtaking and passing by faster vehicles if such passing is
safe and reasonable, except under any of the situations listed below.

1. When overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
3. When the operator must necessarily drive in a lane other than the right-hand lane to continue on
his intended route.

The intent of this subsection is to facilitate the overtaking of slowly moving vehicles by faster moving
vehicles, and shall not require the drivers of such slowly moving vehicles to risk their own safety in order
to facilitate overtaking.

QUOTE]

You mean like this from the WIsconsin Statutes:

346.02
(4) Applicability to persons riding bicycles and motor bicycles.
(a) Subject to the special provisions applicable to bicycles, every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway or shoulder of a highway is granted all the rights and is subject to all the duties which this chapter grants or applies to the operator of a vehicle, except those provisions which by their express terms apply only to motor vehicles or which by their very nature would have no application to bicycles. For purposes of this chapter, provisions which apply to bicycles also apply to motor bicycles, except as otherwise expressly provided.


SUBCHAPTER II
DRIVING, MEETING, OVERTAKING AND PASSING

346.05 Vehicles to be driven on right side of roadway; exceptions.
(1) Upon all roadways of sufficient width the operator of a vehicle shall drive on the right half of the roadway and in the right-hand lane of a 3-lane highway, except:
(a) When making an approach for a left turn under circumstances in which the rules relating to left turns require driving on the left half of the roadway; or
(b) When overtaking and passing under circumstances in which the rules relating to overtaking and passing permit or require driving on the left half of the roadway; or
(c) When the right half of the roadway is closed to traffic while under construction or repair; or
(d) When overtaking and passing pedestrians, animals or obstructions on the right half of the roadway; or
(e) When driving in a particular lane in accordance with signs or markers designating such lane for traffic moving in a particular direction or at designated speeds; or
(f) When the roadway has been designated and posted for one-way traffic, subject, however, to the rule stated in sub. (3) relative to slow moving vehicles.
(1m) Notwithstanding sub. (1), any person operating a bicycle or electric personal assistive mobility device may ride on the shoulder of a highway unless such riding is prohibited by the authority in charge of the maintenance of the highway.

Bekologist

sorry, kalliergo, the evidence facilties both increase ridership and decrease accident rates is a proven commodity. not debatable. its a given, duderino. check it out.

kalliergo 

Won't cite evidence and is addicted to nasty name-calling.

To the "ignore" list you go.

And to the bike I go...

I-Like-To-Bike

Swell!! Keep posting your VC swill and chum, and ignore the responses that don't meet your "standards." You make a fine VC punching bag.

Goodbye, have a nice ride. The short list of people who post material that meets your "standards" gets even shorter.

bigpedaler

time to ride, and quit worrying about which sub-group someone else would classify you into; you ride a bike for the love of the ride, so you're a cyclist, a bike rider. if the bike is just something you have to do, well, you're just sad. anything beyond that, and you or someone else has too much time on your/their hands.

LittleBigMan

I like that quote of yours: "Only a few prefer liberty--the majority seek nothing more than fair masters"

So, don't ask for a label, you'll probably get one.

chipcom 

I'd like to be called 'Flower'.

skanking biker

I thank everyone for their responses. THis thread can probably be closed. Again---I do not care what people "label" me here. I posed the question because I am a newb in this forum and needed a reference point for some of the commonly-used terms here of which I was not familiar. I thought by describing my own behavior and asking how people here would classify it, I could better understand the terminology used in posts here so I would not be misunderstood or misunderstand others by acribing the incorrect meaning to a given term.

donnamb 

Moderator's Note: Thank you, skanking biker, I was just about to close this thread anyway, thinking you had your questions answered.

For future reference, please let me assure those of you who wonder - it is highly unlikely that Helmet Head and kalliergo are the same individual. Please refrain from future public speculation on this topic. It really has no benefit to this forum, and as I said, they do appear to be 2 distinct member of the **** sapien species.

Let me also point out that the latter part of this thread is a perfect example of how new posters who have a genuine interest in advocacy and safety issues are discouraged from posting on this forum. I congratulate all of you on a job well done.