Helmet Head

I might add that extra width "would have prevented that one 100%", regardless of whether the extra width happened to be demarcated as a bike lane stripe or not.

SSP

Whiner....my post included those details.

I think you meant to say "I'm not getting much support".

Helmet Head

If you're not sure on lane position, then how can you say he was taking the lane?

SSP

So freakin' what??? Your thread asked about "narrow lane crashes"...and several such examples have been cited.

Helmet Head

Yours is an exception in that it provides lane position info.

It is also an exception in that it involves a passing incident.

The primary purpose of this thread (for me) is to see if anyone knows of incidents where riding in a lane caused a motorist to run into a cyclist from behind because he never saw the cyclist.

chipcom 

I think the guy had to come up from behind to pass SSP. But of course, you are looking for examples to support one of your theories, and since SSP wasn't hugging the curb or in a bike lane, you need to discount his experience.

SSP

Given that rear end traffic collisions occur many times per day in which a car runs into the back of a large vehicle stopped in the middle of the roadway...do you have any doubt that such an "incident" could also occur with a bicycle in the roadway?

Or, perhaps your VC "Power Shield" technology confers some sort of "force field" that mitigates that accident scenario?

Helmet Head

But he chose to pass, so therefore the driver noticed the cyclist.

Actually, I am looking for examples to contradict one of my theories: that motorists are highly unlikely to not notice a cyclist riding relatively slowly up ahead in their path, particularly if visibility is not an issue (driver is not not blinded by the sun; if it's daytime cyclist is propertly lighted/reflectorized).

Helmet Head

That's one possible explanation.

The point is, that as long as there aren't any blatant visibility problems, motorists tend to notice and not run into cyclists riding in their path up ahead with such regularity that we are apparently able to cite few if any examples of this ever happening.

chipcom 

So why didn't you just state your intent in your OP and subject, rather than playing charades? Another example of honesty?

deputyjones

Because I stated that a bike and car could not fit together on that road. How much clearer do you need me to be?

deputyjones

Exactly, +1

CommuterRun

I almost saw one this very afternoon. Two-lane, NOL, 55 mph speed limit. I am in the center of the lane to preclude passing because of oncoming traffic. JAM decides, "Damn the oncoming, full speed ahead." The two hotties in the oncoming car had to run off the road to avoid Moron Cager. Of course while they did this, the driver was on the horn and the passenger was throwing the cager the bird out her window.

Pretty cool. The passenger waved at me, with all five fingers, as they were pulling back on the road and went by.

But to answer the question the way it was intended: It has been my experience that the further from the right the cyclist is, the more likely it is that motorists will not only notice them, but will also take more measures to avoid a possible collision, i.e. slowing before passing and giving more lateral space while passing.

joejack951

The only local rear end accident that I know of (I've only paid attention for the past two years) was about 1.5 years when a young boy riding at night without lights swerved out of the shoulder into the path of a passing bus. The driver could not slow quick enough and rear ended the cyclist. The onboard camera caught the whole thing.

Helmet Head

I'm looking for unbiased responses. Why does my purpose matter?

pj7

I believethat I answered your question thoroughly enough.
With the exception being that the motorist saw me but was unaware of our distances apart.

pj7

Here's some meat to chew on.
With 3 minutes to spare and a decent search engine anyone should be able to find news accounts online of a motorist rear-ending another motorist on rural and non-rural roads with the claim that "I did not see him".
Now, a car/truck/motorcycle is just slightly larger than a person on a bicycle and it would be safe to assume that the vehicle WAS traveling in the travel lane and not "hugging the curb or white line" at the time of the incident.
All it takes is a curve and for someone behind the wheel to sneeze or take their eyes off the road for a few seconds for this to happen. This is common sense knowledge here and you don't need mad_google_skillz to figure it out.
So what if these incidents don't involve a bicycle, they very well could. Just the same that they could involve a pedestrian, a horse-and-buggy, or a combine. It all fits into the same frame here.

Helmet Head

Yes, in theory they very well could involve a bicycle, or so it seems. What I'm trying to figure out is if they ever do, and if they do, how often. If it's never, or almost never, the next question is why?

I suspect that if you look at the causes of rear-end collisions you'll find that "did not see" really means "did not notice him slowing down and/or stopping, which stems from not expecting them to slow down and/or stop in that context".

Not seeing due to inattentional blindness, which is what we're talking about in car-car rear enders, has much more to do with expectations, and not the inability to "see" a car.

Further, if you spend much time taking the lane in traffic, with motorists behind you, you know how rare it is to have a tailgater. Further, if you're a mirror user and have discovered how to use the left-arm slow/stop signal, you know how effective that is to get tailgaters to stop tailgating you.

deputyjones

This is correct in my experience that inattention causes rear end accidents. "Failure to stop in the assured clear distance ahead" is the #1 ticket I have written by far.

What would be the reason behind not explaining this in the OP as is the normal protocol in this and other internet forums?

pj7

I'm talking about cases where one party said "I did not see him". And as I pointed out, it is VERY likely for that to happen when you take:
1 part curvy road
1 part taking your eyes off the road
toss in a little radio tuning
and shake well for 3 seconds with a daydream
If the accounts in which I refer to were about the motorist did not notice a person slowing down or stopping, then I'm sure they would be reported as so.
With the way your comment here seems, if one were to show you an example of exactly what you are asking for, you could easily dismiss it by saying "I suspect the driver was..."

Inattentional blindness, or as I call it, not paying attention, (why must people be so neologistic online?) is one way of "not seeing a person" Maybe you are looking for examples of people who have some sort of medical problem where they have blind spots in their eyes and can only see things at certain angles? You did ask for examples where the motorist "did not see" the person, which is pretty broad to say the least, and this inattentional blindness does fit that bill.
I am saying this because you use the exact phrase "inability to see" which means a physical issue.
So what are you looking for here exactly? Examples of people with medical problems hitting people, or examples of nattentive drivers hitting people? I see no other group in this case. Because driving a car with 200+ watts of flod/spot lighting in front of you makes it all but impossible to "not see" something dead ahead of you unless it is completely transparent or just too small for the human eye to visually comprehend at the distance of 10-20 feet.

I agree with your first "further" statement to some extent. But totally disagree with your latter one.
How are we defining "rare" in this case? I get tailgated almost daily when riding in traffic, at least thrice a week. Now to me, this is rare considering that I probably have upwards of a thousand cars behind me at some point on my commute. Three out of a thousand is a very small percent. But I'd feel safe in saying that others would call this "too excessive" and therefor, not a rareity.
As for using your arms and signals to deter a person from tailgating you once they have started, then I challenge you to go to a more hostile enviroment and try the same thing. when someone is tailgating you, they have an axe with the word "anger" imprinted on it to grind. Otherwise, why would they be doing it in the first place? If someone were behind me, tailgating me, and I threw up an arm to signal a slow/stop on my part, the person tailgating me would take my gesture as some sort of assertive and agressive move I was making. When people are mad they do not make rational choices. If they did, then we'd have a lot less murder, asaults, road rage, etc in our nation today. So throwing up my arm in that manner would most likely further enrage the individual behind me who could, in their mind, interpet my signal as me flying the bird, and upon this determination they may take a more agressive action. The EXACT same thing happened to a guy on here the very year I signed up for my account, in which some guy in a truck was being agressive, when the cyclist threw up his arm the motorist interpeted in incorrectly and swerved into the cyclist, causing some brain damage and other injuries.
But then again, we are upposed to be talking about narrow roads and not traffic, aren't we?

ghettocruiser

Actually, I cited 2 incidents in my area from last fall alone. Did you look at them before you made this claim? I'll add that they were both broad-daylight mishaps.

I remember more hit-from-behind accidents from last summer, but the articles are long gone. Of course, the news coverage on these incidents has almost no detail on direction, much less lane position, but the two articles I posted, based on the fact that only one narrow lane exists in each direction, are of the type that you describe.

I'm not sure what vast accident data archive remains to be tapped, and I think we all have better things to do.

Point remains: the only relevant study in my area, which I have sourced before, found that overtaking motorist is the most common fatal accident type.

Maybe it never happens anywhere else, but no one has posted a direct link to the contrary.

Again, motorists plow into the back of other motorists ALL THE TIME.

deputyjones

well done, +1

ghettocruiser

To clarify my post above: I'm not saying that I think there is an unreasonably large risk to rear-end collisions. They are the most common fatal accident type, but fatal accidents are rare. I ride on the road, I take the lane, I don't think I'm suicidal for doing so.

But to deny the existence of this collision type is inane.

pj7

well done eh?
hrm, yeah, that would make my posted recipe a bit better
so, append this to the end of my recipe above
"bake at 350 for 25 minutes, or until well done"

pj7

I totally agree with you.
On my bicycle I have never had the fear of being hit from behind once I learned how to control the thing better than a hobbled gimp. And I ride in traffic quite frequently and quite comfortable when needed. But I perfer to ride on the shoulder of the road where I can slow down to a crawl if I feel the need and kno that I am not slowing anyone down in the process. On the shoulder I alos have no fear of being hit from behind. I know that it could happen in either case, but I also could be diagnosed with ALS the next time I go to a doctor, at which time, none of this would mean squat to me anymore.
These collisions have happened. But to ask for direct examples that provide full details is asenine really. Can anyone here find me an example online of a two car accident that involved someone smoking a pipe, having the ashes fly out and burn their eyes, at which point they slammed into a guardrail and a passer by stopped and hosed their crotch down with a fire extenguisher? I doubt it. But the fact is, that happened to a buddy of mine a few years ago. (long story)