How fast of a car-bike collision can be survived?
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
How fast of a car-bike collision can be survived?
Suppose I were travelling at 12mph on a bike when I was rear-ended by a car travelling 40mph. Would that be fatal? What if the car were going 30mph or 50mph?
I'm an engineering student. I live two miles from campus. I own a car. I'll drive it if I have to, but I'd rather be cycling.
The proposed route is one mile along a two-lane road with 40mph traffic and a "bicycle lane" which is basically a wide shoulder with a paralellogram painted on it, then one mile down the same road with the same bike lane after it widens to four lanes and speeds up to 55mph traffic (speed limit 45). I consider the chance of being hit to be slim, but the consequences of such a collision are quite unknown to me.
I'm an engineering student. I live two miles from campus. I own a car. I'll drive it if I have to, but I'd rather be cycling.
The proposed route is one mile along a two-lane road with 40mph traffic and a "bicycle lane" which is basically a wide shoulder with a paralellogram painted on it, then one mile down the same road with the same bike lane after it widens to four lanes and speeds up to 55mph traffic (speed limit 45). I consider the chance of being hit to be slim, but the consequences of such a collision are quite unknown to me.
#2
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,798
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 1,326 Times
in
837 Posts
1) If it's only two miles each way, have you considered walking or jogging? (At age 56, I cover anywhere from 4 to 9 miles per day on foot, averaging 5 to 6, as part of my commute and general transportation.) A two-mile-each-way commute will destroy your car in no time.
2) Will your commute ever involve riding after dark, into the rising or setting sun, inclement weather, or other hazards? Even in broad daylight, high-visibility clothing will definitely enhance your odds of avoiding a serious collision. At night, good, bright front and rear lights are a must.
3) To return to your original question, speed undeniably kills. Your odds of surviving a collision with a motor vehicle traveling 15 to 20mph are decent, but they drop to almost nil if you are struck with a car going, say, 50mph. (In San Diego County, we just lost a very experienced and talented cyclist when he was struck from behind on a 55mph road in Poway.)
2) Will your commute ever involve riding after dark, into the rising or setting sun, inclement weather, or other hazards? Even in broad daylight, high-visibility clothing will definitely enhance your odds of avoiding a serious collision. At night, good, bright front and rear lights are a must.
3) To return to your original question, speed undeniably kills. Your odds of surviving a collision with a motor vehicle traveling 15 to 20mph are decent, but they drop to almost nil if you are struck with a car going, say, 50mph. (In San Diego County, we just lost a very experienced and talented cyclist when he was struck from behind on a 55mph road in Poway.)
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#3
bragi
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: seattle, WA
Posts: 2,911
Bikes: LHT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
If you have a wide shoulder (er, bike lane), I wouldn't worry about fatal speed differentials. The odds of an untimely demise om that road are probably very small. However, I can understand your discomfort; I try to avoid roads where the cars are going much faster than 40 mph myself. Are there alternative routes?
#4
One Hep Cat
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: N 44.91577 W093.25327
Posts: 748
Bikes: Surly Cross-Check (commuter), Lemond Sarthe (sports car), Schwinn fixed gear conversion (for fun)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
A public service radio spot that I heard on Friday said that a person has an 80% chance of surviving being hit by a car going 20 mph and an 80% chance of dying from being hit at 40 mph. You would have to do some physics to apply that to a moving bike and an opposing car, but if you cared to it would not take long. That statistic sounds like some pretty sketchy science to me and there are a lot a variables, but I offer this as a "data" point in case it helps. Plus, I remembered it, which is rarer and raret these days....
[edit] ... Of course, simply surviving might not be such a great deal if you ended up incapacitated with a diminished quality of life and long term care issues to deal with (um... guess I am a little down today). I guess I would find another route if I were you.
Good luck and BE SAFE OUT THERE!!
[edit] ... Of course, simply surviving might not be such a great deal if you ended up incapacitated with a diminished quality of life and long term care issues to deal with (um... guess I am a little down today). I guess I would find another route if I were you.
Good luck and BE SAFE OUT THERE!!
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm not sure about bicycles, but I've had friends die on motorcycles at under 40 mph, and had other friends walk away from 180+mph (on the track) lay downs.
Sometimes life is unpredictable. The real questions are what you hit, and how you hit it. The speed required to do damage is actually rather low, but the conditions under which those low speeds actually DO do that type of damage are amazingly rare.
-- James
Sometimes life is unpredictable. The real questions are what you hit, and how you hit it. The speed required to do damage is actually rather low, but the conditions under which those low speeds actually DO do that type of damage are amazingly rare.
-- James
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 418
Bikes: Devinci Taos, Mielle Alpha
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
You can die from tripping and hitting your head. Do you intend to wear a helmet? That may be the big variable.
#7
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 16,056
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times
in
17 Posts
The most dangerous thing you do all day, unless you walk a highwire without a net, or are a dud bomb tester, is get in and out of the shower every day.
The perception of rear ending danger on a bike is far higher than it actually turns out to be....(I sound like Helmet Head! ). Wear High Visibility yellow or ANSI Safety green and use a blinkie light and you'll be fine!
The perception of rear ending danger on a bike is far higher than it actually turns out to be....(I sound like Helmet Head! ). Wear High Visibility yellow or ANSI Safety green and use a blinkie light and you'll be fine!
__________________
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
#8
Geosynchronous Falconeer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 6,312
Bikes: 2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I got hit head on by a car that seemed to be going 15 to 20mph. I was going 25mph. It hurt, but nothing was broken.
__________________
Bring the pain.
Bring the pain.
#9
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by John E
3) To return to your original question, speed undeniably kills. Your odds of surviving a collision with a motor vehicle traveling 15 to 20mph are decent, but they drop to almost nil if you are struck with a car going, say, 50mph. (In San Diego County, we just lost a very experienced and talented cyclist when he was struck from behind on a 55mph road in Poway.)
#10
Opt-in Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
My only accident so far has been a door prize while I was riding a MTB at around 20kmh
I flew in a parabolic curve and landed in pushup position without skidding, so I got lucky there... my handlebars were slightly misaligned and a brake cable was severed.
However, the Honda Civic's door was left barely attached to the car.
I flew in a parabolic curve and landed in pushup position without skidding, so I got lucky there... my handlebars were slightly misaligned and a brake cable was severed.
However, the Honda Civic's door was left barely attached to the car.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by BobSmalls
Suppose I were travelling at 12mph on a bike when I was rear-ended by a car travelling 40mph. Would that be fatal?
I got run down from behind by an SUV estimated by witnesses to be going 50mph. I lived, but barely.
Multiple broken bones, tire marks on my helmet, 2 days of memory loss (could be from the sedation at the hospital), and became septic and seriously sick from post-crash infections.
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/138308-ran-down-behind.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/165804-post-crash-pic-bike.html
I survived physically, mentally .... ?
However, when recovering from this crash I discovered Bikeforums (wasn't much I could do besides surf the web or watch TV). So something good did come of it.
jw
(no, the driver was never caught)
Last edited by John Wilke; 04-02-07 at 09:20 AM.
#12
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It seems the consensus is consistent with the theory: Each additional MPH is much more dangerous than the previous one. Further, even during the 40mph portion of my commute, being hit by a car would be very serious.
@bragi: This IS the alternate route. The more obvious and shorter route is down a 55mph (45 posted) divided highway with narrow shoulders. Hey, at least there's no cars parked on the street.
To JW and others: I'm glad to hear you're riding again/still.
I know Honda is very interested in safety, especially pedestrian crash safety. I wonder whether they test their doors in door-bike scenarios. Probably not, since you'd survive hitting just about any door. All the better if you sail over it.
I rode today despite the wind. I saw two other cyclists during the fifteen minutes I was out. I haven't heard of any cyclist deaths on local bikepaths or roads, so I'm going to guess it's safe enough.
@bragi: This IS the alternate route. The more obvious and shorter route is down a 55mph (45 posted) divided highway with narrow shoulders. Hey, at least there's no cars parked on the street.
To JW and others: I'm glad to hear you're riding again/still.
I know Honda is very interested in safety, especially pedestrian crash safety. I wonder whether they test their doors in door-bike scenarios. Probably not, since you'd survive hitting just about any door. All the better if you sail over it.
I rode today despite the wind. I saw two other cyclists during the fifteen minutes I was out. I haven't heard of any cyclist deaths on local bikepaths or roads, so I'm going to guess it's safe enough.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Montreal
Posts: 6,521
Bikes: Peugeot Hybrid, Minelli Hybrid
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
You will be safer on the bike than in the car, because you wont be sharing the lane with other cars.
#14
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by AndrewP
You will be safer on the bike than in the car, because you wont be sharing the lane with other cars.
The other issue is debatable as those statistics never compare cars to bikes with both moving at the same speed. They compare all auto collisions to all bike collisions.
Try comparing auto collisions at or below 30MPH to bike collisions.
#15
Walmart bike rider
There are other factors besides speed that determines how bad a car vs bike wreck will be. For example, if you got hit from behind, did you go under the car or on top of the hood?
That said, of course the more speed, the more likely you will die.
That said, of course the more speed, the more likely you will die.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Montreal
Posts: 6,521
Bikes: Peugeot Hybrid, Minelli Hybrid
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
I see two things wrong with your comment... many of us do "share the lane" either beside or in front of cars... the latter case putting us right in line for the same rear end collisions that make up the majority of auto crashes.
#17
Cactuar!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 42
Bikes: Marin Muirwoods
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
That is an impossible thing to quantify. You can't simply attach a speed to it and say it will or will not be fatal.
Where are you taking the impact? Helmet? Face? Spine?
Where are you taking the impact? Helmet? Face? Spine?
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by sneefy
That is an impossible thing to quantify. You can't simply attach a speed to it and say it will or will not be fatal.
Where are you taking the impact? Helmet? Face? Spine?
Where are you taking the impact? Helmet? Face? Spine?
I know a lot of folks here preach about 'taking the lane'. Me? I ride as far to the right as possible, a glancing blow is better than a direct hit.
jw
#19
Software for Cyclists
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redding, California
Posts: 4,618
Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I was sideswiped on Feb. 18th by an idiot pulling a wide trailer and put on the ground. I was traveling 40 mph, and the guy who hit me was probably going close to 55.
Thankfully, the trailer wheels didn't run over me, I didn't bounce off the trailer, and I took a fairly good fall.
The damage:
My beloved 2001 Trek 5200 (on which I had crossed the Continental Divide in Colorado 10 times, and summited Alpe d'Huez) was totaled.
Every item of clothing I was wearing, except for socks and shoes, were totaled.
I "escaped" with no broken bones, but required about 20 stitches in the knuckles of my right hand, and in my left elbow (which was opened to the bone). Plus a bunch of road rash on left hip and shoulder.
I think I was pretty lucky...some of my friends riding behind me thought I was going to be dead when they got to where I'd gone down.
Thankfully, the trailer wheels didn't run over me, I didn't bounce off the trailer, and I took a fairly good fall.
The damage:
My beloved 2001 Trek 5200 (on which I had crossed the Continental Divide in Colorado 10 times, and summited Alpe d'Huez) was totaled.
Every item of clothing I was wearing, except for socks and shoes, were totaled.
I "escaped" with no broken bones, but required about 20 stitches in the knuckles of my right hand, and in my left elbow (which was opened to the bone). Plus a bunch of road rash on left hip and shoulder.
I think I was pretty lucky...some of my friends riding behind me thought I was going to be dead when they got to where I'd gone down.
#20
Software for Cyclists
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redding, California
Posts: 4,618
Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by John Wilke
Yeah, but if had to chose between two risks ... getting hit at 30 mph, or 50 mph, isn't that choice easy?
I know a lot of folks here preach about 'taking the lane'. Me? I ride as far to the right as possible, a glancing blow is better than a direct hit.
jw
I know a lot of folks here preach about 'taking the lane'. Me? I ride as far to the right as possible, a glancing blow is better than a direct hit.
jw
Better to use a mirror and be assertive...hugging the right side is just inviting cars to pass when it's not safe.
Edit: sorry...I didn't see your post above about getting hit high speed. I could see how that could change things for you.
#21
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,973
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times
in
1,045 Posts
Originally Posted by SSP
I was sideswiped on Feb. 18th by an idiot pulling a wide trailer and put on the ground. I was traveling 40 mph, and the guy who hit me was probably going close to 55.
Thankfully, the trailer wheels didn't run over me, I didn't bounce off the trailer, and I took a fairly good fall.
Thankfully, the trailer wheels didn't run over me, I didn't bounce off the trailer, and I took a fairly good fall.
#22
Software for Cyclists
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redding, California
Posts: 4,618
Bikes: Trek 5200, Specialized MTB
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Wow, bad as your injuries were, you were fortunate your injuries weren't worse. Obviously the idiot caused you to fall, but do you think your injuries are mostly if not totally related to hitting the ground at 40 mph without being stopped by an immoveable object like a guard rail or tree. In other words, the motor vehicle caused the fall but its velocity didn't add to the trauma. I suspect your own speed would be irrelevant if your body was struck broadside by a vehicle going 40 mph. Or the motor vehicle speed would be irrelevant (it could even be stopped) if you struck the side of it at 40 mph and were instantly decelerated to 0MPH.
As for my injuries - I think the speed of the vehicle didn't make much difference in this case. It would have been about the same if it had been a single-vehicle bicycle accident (e.g., a blown front tire at 40 mph). Basically, I just got bumped really hard by the rear wheels of the trailer as he swung back into the lane....the bump was no big deal, but hitting the ground at that speed sure was.
I think I just went down hard to the left and tumbled forward only once...basically, a quick fall and quick deceleration to 0 mph. Full details, plus links to photos for the interested and/or ghoulish, in this thread.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Central Indiana
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BobSmalls
Suppose I were travelling at 12mph on a bike when I was rear-ended by a car travelling 40mph. Would that be fatal? What if the car were going 30mph or 50mph?
If I had been on one of my bikes, I would agree with jw ... ALMOST
Luckily, I was on my recumbent trike. I was stiff, sore and bruised but, alive and kicking.
To JW: My SUV driver didn't slow or brake until he realized he had a flat tire.
Ron
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gnv, FL
Posts: 1,890
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Anecdotal evidence for surviveable collision at 30 mph:
I was hit head on recently by someone who was cutting the corner while making a turn (I was just departing from the stop line at the intersection he was turning on to). We both had our vision obscured of eachother because a bus was passing when we made our respective turns, so we were both at fault. He hit me straight on at 30 mph and sent me flying into the air after breaking his windshield. He got out of his car and I overheard him speaking to a 911 operator - "Hello, I just killed someone on a bike." It was surreal. I walked away with a swollen ankle and some road rash.
Each accident is unique, though, and you can't make generalizations; I just wanted to share an interesting experience I had.
I was hit head on recently by someone who was cutting the corner while making a turn (I was just departing from the stop line at the intersection he was turning on to). We both had our vision obscured of eachother because a bus was passing when we made our respective turns, so we were both at fault. He hit me straight on at 30 mph and sent me flying into the air after breaking his windshield. He got out of his car and I overheard him speaking to a 911 operator - "Hello, I just killed someone on a bike." It was surreal. I walked away with a swollen ankle and some road rash.
Each accident is unique, though, and you can't make generalizations; I just wanted to share an interesting experience I had.
#25
----
have you seen this video?
frightening yet, somehow, oddly reassuring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tth9krDtxII
frightening yet, somehow, oddly reassuring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tth9krDtxII