John C. Ratliff

I have been holding off posting this, thinking that perhaps someone else will do it. But this is a big deal in Portland's bicycling community. Here's the story:

The Oregonian, 6-26-03

and at the same time. This guy should not have been loose on the road.

John

bac

What gets me is that if the "driver" wasn't drunk, he most probably wouldn't be facing any charges. It's a huge tragedy though, regardless.

R.I.P. fellow cyclists. :angel:

Pete Clark

I guess that's one reason I avoid those "midnight rides." The drunks and idiots are out on the streets.

What's wrong with forcing a convicted drunk driver to use the bus? It won't kill him. In fact, I'm in favor of the same punishment for aggressive or reckless drivers.

John C. Ratliff

When I first heard the news about these bicyclists, it was one day after my office colligue and I had been discussing road design, and the right of bicyclists to ride on county roads in this area. He came in on Wednesday morning, and said that his arguement had been born out by these fatalities. My statement was that this guy probably should not have been on the road, and that this probably was not the first time that he had been in trouble for driving drunk. I also said (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that if he had previously gotten drunk and been driving in Germany, he would have been locked up. Today's Oregonian bears out what I said as true. Here's the article:

Van driver in fatalities unlicensed

Today, in honor of these bicyclists, I rode my bicycle to work for only the second time in a year on a Friday. I have had two accidents, involving cars, and both were on a Friday. I've taken many measures to ensure that this never happens again, and one of those is not to ride on Friday. My personal feeling is that drivers get very weird on Fridays. Whether this is from an accumulation of road rage throughout the week, distractions thinking about the weekend, or hurry to get home to begin the weekend, Friday is a bad day to ride.

But today, I rode. It was a glorious day to ride, and I wanted to be on my bicycle. But I wanted nothing to do with cars, at all. So my route was planned with the desire to have "Zero Car Interactions" during the ride. I defined this as having a moving car pass my moving bicycle, in any direction, within ten feet. By using bicycle paths, sidewalks, and back roads, I was able to get to work and back, and then to the store, with Zero Bicycle Interactions on the way to work, and only one on the way back.

I am also a diver, and I now think of cars in the same terms that divers think of sharks. Divers watch them closely, stay away from them, and don't swim when they are in a feeding frenzy.

I now watch cars closely, stay away from them, and usually don't ride on Friday, which is the driver's equivalent of a shark feeding frenzy. But today, I rode, but on my terms and without interactions. The one car that came close, was on a back road and drove slowly.

John

Max

John, good metaphor. But a bit humiliating to sharks. Sharks do not degrade environment, they are part of it. Sharks disappear from the planet, maybe because the cars multiply.

How many people do sharks kill? Maybe 3 - 4 in the whole world per year. But about 60000 people die from the pollution-related illnesses only in the EU per year.

Do not give the bad name to sharks. Life (including sharks) disappear from Earth. Every day hundreds (!) of species disappear from the planet for good. We should protect sharks, because humans could be the next.

The problem is not with the car per se. The problem is in your and my head. You still drive you car on the usual Fridays, do not you?

Unfortunately, this article did not answer the most important question - did these 3 cyclists have the blinkers on their bikes "on" at the moment of the collision.

uciflylow

This is the question I would like to see answered.

Did the cyclist have on the proper night riding equipment, and was it working properly.

I ride a lot of night trips. I use high output blinker, reflective ankle bands, reflective piping on cloths, reflective strips on bike frame, big yellow reflector on rear rack, lights on front, and a reflective blaze orange with reflective vest.

The only person who has ever stoped me said " you'r light up like a zebra". Good, that's the look I'm going for.

I just would like to know about the methods emploied by the cyclist involved in this tragic crash.

John C. Ratliff

I'm not sure that any amount of lighting would have helped in this case. A blood alcohol of .224 percent means this is a very impared person. I think in the article they stated he was traveling about 70 mph on a city street. I think 35 mph is the speed limit there. But I'll keep my ears open on their lighting. This is a failure of the traffic laws in Oregon and the USA to get these people off the road before they can do this kind of harm.

Concerning the sharks, I'm sorry to have compared them to autos. Really, I was comparing the drivers of autos to sharks in a feeding frenzy on Fridays. This is a subtle difference, but it goes to the psychology of the drivers.

I'm considering continuing to ride in the manner of "Zero Auto Interactions" on Fridays, or walking. Yes, I've been using the car on Fridays; that is under review right now.

John

uciflylow

I'm in total agreement about the failure of the law to remove such people from behind the wheels of autos.
When has driving become such a right and not a privalige that offenders don't loose their right to drive? People who exersize poor, or lack of judgment while driving should be banned from driving, it's that simple.

John C. Ratliff

It's not just a matter of loosing their rights to drive. This guy had been driving without a license for many, many years. He had gotten arrested after driving without a license, and arrested for drunk driving in March without a license, and he still got into a car and killed people.

Today, there was another article in the Oregonian. Critical Mass had a rally yesterday concerning the accident, and there were arrests too. Here's the article:

Bike group rallies at crash site

John

John E

What does severely and unnecessarily impeding traffic have to do with drunk driving? Critical Mass Oregon claims that the area is anti-bike, then they pull a lousy public relations stunt like this.

When SDCBC lost a 77-years-young member at the hands of a distracted motorist, we organized a respectful, lawful memorial ride. We did not block a major intersection for 15 minutes!

By the way, I am a long-standing dues-paying "Mother" Against Drunk Driving, and I think we need much stricter penalties for motorists who kill or injure other road users.

John C. Ratliff

The article in the printed edition of the Oregonian today has a very interesting visually photo of the CM people silhouetted against a blue sky, with their bicycles held over their heads. Above the photo is this line:

"'I think it's very important to recognize the dangers cyclists face every day.' Kathleen Manseau, Portland cyclist who participated in Friday's ride."

Under the photo was this byline:

"Cyclists lift their bikes near Southeast 42nd Avenue and Belmont Street Friday night in honor of two bicyclists who died there Wednesday after a van struck them."

The byline for the article states:

"The Critical Mass riders protest reckless drivers, and the dangers bicyclists face."

Up to this point, I have simply been reporting on this event. Now, for an opinion--in my mind, this cannot be good for the promotion of cycling as an alternative to the car. It feeds the press and public's perception of the dangers of bicycling, and does nothing to keep drunk drivers out of their cars (which is the real problem--we've suffered two drunk driver/bicycle fatal collisions in one week). It also aggravates an already edgy bunch of drivers trying to get home on Friday evening. Does the term "self-aggrandizement" apply here?

By the way, down below these headlines is a much smaller article titled "'Mortorcycle ride leaves 2 dead, friend grieving.' 'A Portland man lends his bike to a pal for a quick spin, but it abruptly ends in a crash that kills two at Rocky Butte.'"

John

The Rob

I too wish to know how prepared these cyclists were just prior to the incident. I agree that it may not have affected the outcome one whit, but then I recall observing people on bicycles in that same area and elsewhere making grievously wrong choices as to clothing and riding style. As I've stated in another thread, a cyclist must take an active part in his/her own safety.

Today I witnessed one incident of bad manners and negligence after another, hour after hour, as I watched the parade of pedestrians and cyclists going to and from a city-sponsored event that was taking place near the business where I work. Name any questionable cycling habit; I saw it today. Critical Mass participants are no exception; I see processions of them on their way downtown at least once per month.

I am in no way defending the actions of the criminal that killed those cyclists, but based upon what I've seen day after day here in Portland, I do wonder if those unfortunate people did everything they could do to be safe. I sincerely hope to learn that they did.

-Rob

Chris L

So why wasn't his car confiscated and impounded? This is something that would put an end to driving without a licence very, very quickly. If he stole the car, throw him in jail for it. Problem solved.

I'm sorry, but I still agree with John E on this one. The last thing we need is yet another media campaign highlighting the "dangers of cycling", or cyclists "holding up traffic". About the only thing that's going to achieve is having cyclists banned from the road altogether "for their own safety". By all means call for incompetent drivers to be removed from the road, but please, leave out the "cycling is dangerous" line.

Pete Clark

If a motorist is killed, we sweep it under the rug. Your friend is in denial with the rest of drivers. Drivers kill each other (mostly each other,) pedestrians and cyclists. Will we stop walking and stop driving and stop cycling? Or will we make them drive more carefully?

nick1111

People who take part in Critical Mass things are assh0les. I don't take part in the large group things ever, but sometimes in small groups we slow traffic a bit, and we know we're being jerks. What's sad is when people think it's morally justified to do so. Biking on the road *does* slow traffic and *is* dangerous, and those who ride on the roads (which are meant and designed for CARS) should be greatful it's even legal.

Chris L

Sorry dude. A couple of facts:

1. Roads have been here longer than cars have. Maybe the designers of those roads envisaged the day when there would be cars everywhere, but I doubt it.

2. The biking on the road slows traffic argument is a fallacy. I've actually made it home from work today. I can guarantee that none of the people driving home have done so yet - they're still stuck in traffic. Who's slowing them up?

3. The biking is dangerous thing is also a fallacy. As far as I'm aware, in terms of the total number of deaths vs the total number of hours people spend doing it, riding on the road comes out quite a bit better than driving on the road does. There are some statistics quoted in the "culture of fear" thread of you're interested.

4. The "we should be greatful it's even legal" argument is also a fallacy unless the government decides to refund me all that tax money I've paid out that's gone into the construction of those roads.

uciflylow

Couldn't have said it better my self Chris.

Nick, if you come here watch out for all the farm tractors and harvesting equipment, they use the roads here also! Look out for the buggies being drawn by horses, these where on the roads long before cars where!

chewa

I can't believe a member of this forum actually wrote that.

Come on, Nick the only thing that makes riding on the road dangerous is the way cars are driven.
Come over here and I'll show you a Roman road. As far as I know there were no cars in those days.

oscaregg

We're gradually learning to treat DUI as something closer to what it is--attempted murder. I like that a judge in South Carolina sentenced a drunk for murder 1 a few years ago; his idea was that getting into a car drunk was close enough to intent to kill to call it that. Portland's police have a reputation for "street justice;" I hope their more thuggish officers realize that the dead cyclists could have been cycling cops and make sure that some of the vermin called repeat drunk drivers end up dead in holes in the ground out in the Coast Range. Treat every drunk driver like a king--a Rodney King!

oscaregg

BTW, a local Nazi halfwit talk radio host name of Lars Liarson, er, Larson, recently described driving an automobile as "a right, not a privilege." This common misconception is part of the problem.

The Rob

Do I take it to understand that you advocate illegal acts and violent suspension of civil rights so long as the results favor your personal sense of 'justice'? Please! I'm all for harsher punishments meted out by our judicial system, but Stalinist tactics? You are obviously unaware of the steep and slippery slope you're asking for.

I believe portions of American history have already demonstrated the drawbacks to a vigilante-style system of justice.

-Rob

John C. Ratliff

Wow, quite a response to the quote on cyclist being glad it's even legal to ride a bicycle on the street.

Right now, the Portland police are under intense scrutiny about the killing of a woman who was a passenger in a car that they stopped. Police found out that she was wanted on other charges, and tried to arrest her as she tried to get away. She moved from the back to the front of the car, started it, and began driving away. A police officer was partially inside the car, and apparently loosing his balance as she was driving away. He fired his revolver once at her, hit her just above the hip, and doesn't remember much after that until he was standing on the road. The bullet traveled up her abdomen into her chest, and stopped under her breast. She died at the scene, after being cuffed and left alone.

Several other facts, that I've purposely left off until now, are:

--She was a black person.
--She had taken cocaine, and presumably was an impared driver.
--She was a mother of two young children, who were home in bed.
--The arrest occurred after 1:00 AM.

While there are a lot of circumstances that are still being hashed out, one of my thoughts was that this woman could have been driving at high speed down the street to get away from police, and endangered other motorists, pedestrians and/or cyclists (which is what happened to the two cyclists killed by a drunk driver).

I do not condone the actions of the Portland police, but there is more to it than simply the death of the woman. Community safety is also a responsibility of the police officers. Here's a web link to the article:

Kendra James Shooting

John

KnightWhoSaysNi

He must believe in the vision of another Nazi halfwit:

"It can only be said with profound sadness that, in the present age of civilization, the ordinary hard-working citizen is still unable to afford a car, a means of up-to-date transport and a source of enjoyment in the leisure hours. One must have courage to face problems and what cannot be solved within one year may become an established fact within ten years . . . ."
Adolf Hitler

mechBgon

Roads are designed for people. People in autos. People on horseback (yes really). People on foot. People in horse-drawn carriages, people driving bicycles, people driving farm equipment.

Cars don't have rights. Bikes don't have rights. Farm equipment, carriages, wheelchairs and shoes don't have rights. People have rights. In the United States at least, people have the same rights regardless of their race, color, creed, economic situation or what they're driving.

I know the reality of that has not fully arrived. But saying that cyclists should be grateful to be allowed on the roads is like saying that people of color should be grateful to be allowed to enter school buildings that were built when segregation was practiced. Repulsive

I suggest doing some research on the League of American Bicyclists, originally the League of American Wheelmen. They were founded in 1880 and lobbied for the public highway system before automobiles were even invented. Think about this

oscaregg

The Kendra James shooting is a case of the Portland Police's chickens coming home to roost. That cop's life was as directly threatened as if Ms. James had put a gun under his nose, but the police department's record of unjust arrest and all-around bad treatment of non white suspects looms larger than the reality of car-as-lethal-weapon. Unfortunately, it will keep police from being proactive when they have to. Remember, DRUNK DRIVERS ARE NOT PEOPLE! Don't confuse one with the other!