so what did you have to say then?

i'l spell it out for you: Y A W N. klopt? goed zo. doe doei.

no, i'm curious as to what you have to say about cycling in the netherlands...

Lived in Germany for 10 years and visited the Netherlands at for least one week every year. My positive impression of North European Cycling, especially Dutch cycling is not influenced by your cryptic negative messages.

Let me sum up this Netherlands disagreement.

Cycling is like beer. There are good beers and there are crappy beers. But, any beer is better than a glass of milk.

If I had any choice in the matter, I would take an over-taxed, weed loving, cycling dependent society any day over one full of rednecks in cages.

Hey now, I resemble that remark (and in a shirt and tie most days too:D) but since I ride in Baltimore the helmet is a necessity. Even if the cars are gone the road surface is so bad that blinking is a life-threatening activity.

Slightly off topic, but if you could PM me with info on the lights you run I'd be grateful. I'm having a wheel built with a generator and need to get the lights for it, so actual experience would be nice to hear.

joel

The best bottle system I've used is an old (late 1970s/early 1980s) Union sytem. These came with the little chrome dish lamps that actually had quite a bit of power. The drag was moderate on the wheel, but it's really a nice system.

The other ones I generally use are the old incandescent Miller-type bottles. These are the old style ones that come with the Chrome bullet lamps and the little rocket-shaped tail lamps.

If you're doing a lot of night riding in very dark conditions, I'd lean towards the Union non-incandescent lamp systems because they are much more helpful.

I'd go with (and use) a SON hub, and use some of the new LEDs or traditional halogen lights.

I like some of those older halogen lamps- they put out nice light for their size. They really surprised me in a good way- small but very bright. The bottle generator was quite reliable, though it put up a little more resistance than the newer ones do.

The incandescent stuff I find easier to work on but not very bright. I use it most often just because I can take the whole thing apart and change in my spares. I do some, but not a ton of night riding with this stuff. It works okay.

I wasn't a biker and I went to Amsterdam for 4 days in July 2007. The airport van dropped me off at the hotel and I almost was killed by a stream of bicycles. I didn't know they had bike paths. I quickly realized that riding a bicycle was the thing to when in Amsterdam. My girlfriend and I rented bicycles for the 4 days and off we went.

For all the greatness that is Amsterdam, and there is a lot of it, the bicycling by far and away was the best part of that city. I referred to my bike as my little jet pack through the town. Get on, lock up, go eat, go bike, go museum, go bike, go bike. Keeps you awake and energized through the experience. A phenominal place!

I Love those locks they use of those heavy chains, so heavy and yet so compact and best of all so easy put on and take off.

The bike paths are great.
Women on bikes look great. #1 reason for advocating biking.
You relax when you ride in holland because its so small, so flat and the bikes are single speed and heavy.

So I get home from my July 2007 trip and I'm all inspired about bikes and fortunate enough to live 4.5 miles from work in northern NJ. So I started to ride my 1996 trek mountain bike, that came free with my 1996 VW Jetta Trek to work and haven't turned back. I'm hooked and now rarely use my car.

So thank you Amsterdam for turning me onto the world of bikes.

No helmet .... even if they have different line than car .... some accident can still happen ....

I agree SO MUCH ...

i had to look that one up.

in case anyone else didn't know about it, here's the wikipedia entry. and it does sound like a nice sort of event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randonneuring

==

about those cool bikes : i've lived in India and been on many similar bikes, though not quite as cool in design. they are very heavy machines, not too bad for riding short distances in flat area. they do remain stable with 2-3 people on board.

i found this on someone else's website, not my photo:
http://www.bikeindia.org/

I grew up in Holland and my family didn't get their first car till I was 7. My Dad was an engineer with Fokker (Aircraft) and certainly had a descent wage... we just didn't realy need a car. I have many fond memories of our cycling days. I can still remember the texture and smell of the fake fur coat my mom used to own. When we'd get back from swimming lessons (I'd be on the back for the bike) in the winter I'd practically bury my face in it to stay nice and warm. Even after we got a car we tended to usually take the bikes into town because it was just as quick as taking car, but parking was easier and free. We lived in Haarlem. It is located about 6 miles from the Sea. We would go to the seaside community of Zandvoort all the time. During the summer months getting to the beach on a nice day would be a nightmare by car. If the weather had been kind of sucky for a while then the traffic on the first nice weekend would backup all the way to Amsterdam (15 miles). On a bike the paths may be packed with as many as 4 cyclists abreast, but it moved nicely, and parking was easy as well. On some of the Dutch government web sites I have read that cycling decreased quite significanlty during the late 1970's and early 1980's. The government started to realize that they truely could not build more highways, the country is pretty full. The answer was a simple solution of looking back in time and seeing what forms of transportation worked for them in the past. The bicycle was a simple and clear solution. Therefore the government focused much of its infrastructure improvements to ensure that cycling would become easier and cheaper than using a car. Those are two guaranteed ways to get everyone's attention. Only now that gasoline has stayed around $3.00 a gallon in the USA have I seen lots of poeple dust off their old bikes and taken up cycling again. I don't love paying twice as much for fuel as I did 6 years ago, but on the other hand there is nothing like money to convince people to change their ways.

In Holland cycling is practical because you have a country with high population density and you can reach most places you may want to drive to within 2 to 7 miles. The cities on the Western side of Holland have all started to run into eachother. The difference is that unlike American urban sprawl, you still have local stores and not just a large mall and shopping at the peripheral of a city area. Many folks take a bike to the train station, then will leave a "beater" commuter bike in the it they work, and then take the beater bike to their office. Sadly bike theft is a huge problem in Holland. Traffic is setup to mostly separate cars/trucks from Bike and Pedestrians. At most intersections there will be three sets of lights. One for cars, one for bikes, and one for the pedestrians. Dutch cyclists are also a bit suicidal. It the light is red for the cyclist and there appears to be enough room to get through the intersection without hitting or being hit by a car, they will just go. As far as I know there is no word for Jaywalking in Holland. It is actually expected that you will just cross if you can. If you wait people will give you a very funny look. Move 90 miles to the East and enter Germany, and you will NOT see people either walking or cycling through a red light. If you do, then you will get some stern ugly looks from the locals... amazing what differences you will find between countries so close together.

There have been some recent changes in the traffic law. In the past all mopeds shared the road with cyclists. This has been changed. In urban high traffic areas, modeds must now fight it out with cars, and cyclists have the bike lane to themselved. With high traffic density too many cyclists were getting clipped by passing mopeds. As far as helmet use goes, it is finally starting to be more normal to put a melmet on kids, but somehow everyone feels they are invincible. Poeple DO get hit on their bikes, and people DO die. If my memory serves me right, one statistic I saw recently mentioned about 680 deaths per year. Considering how many people are on the road, the actual rate is very low, but if everyone were to wear a helmet in Holland I am sure this could be reduced a bit by how much... I'll leave that to some statistion.

Next summer the family is planning facation in Holland. My parents, my sister with her husband and two kids and my wife and daughter and I will all be there. After looking at what car or mini van rentals would cost we all descided that we will just rent some bikes. This will let our kids experience Holland they it should be... from the vantage point of a bicycle.

Happy cycling,
André

These bikes might be great for flat areas like Amsterdam and Davis, CA, but any place with hills of any significant grade or length and their weight quickly makes them less practical.

My newest bike is a relatively heavy crossbike (Specialized Tricross Sport), but it has very low gears (a 30/34!) so I can use it in San Diego. But I don't see how an Amsterdam bike would be practical in San Diego, except in certain limited areas with no hills.

But even with light bikes and low gears, most people are simply not interested in getting involved with bikes when there are hills involved.

you might have a few points in there, but i won't be wading through all of that to find out.

dat is leven op bikeforums.

so, any insight from botto?

Have you ridden 'these' bikes?

The bikes we are bringing to Vermont have 8 speed Nexus hubs, and we are tuning them to the terrain.
'Heavy' is also relative. Heavy with racks, fenders, lights, chaincase, luggage is very different than a stateside 'heavy' sport bike with no practical details.


Yes, 'most' folks don't want anything to do with walking, running, or riding. You can even get a fridge that throws beers to you on the fridge.

My fixie and 40lb Single Speed were very practical in the hills
of VT and PA. Practicality is in the mind of the beholder.
When you get used to 70 gear inches or so then bikes with
triples become impractical.....inefficient use of energy. A lot
of pedaling but no ground being covered. Id take the Amsterdam
over any road bike.

OOOHHHH I lived in Hoofddorp which is about a 10km ride to Amsterdam by bike path

what do I win ?

A Huffy style fat tire bike gives one that same great utilitarian feel.

The thing is that most errands take place within a mile or two of home... one doesn't have to ride up and down huge hills to go to the corner store or mini mall. The problem is far too many folks are driving just a 1/2 mile to that very local location and not getting any exercise at all.

Your vision a need to ride up and down huge hills for simple errands is due to your EC mindset and the need for speed.

Even though where I live is riddled with canyons and few thru streets, I can easily ride to several shopping centers, a great pub, and more international varieties of restaurants than I can think of on relatively flat streets... provided I chose to mix it up with 45MPH motorists that will throw big hissy fits just because of my presence on a bike... especially if I ride a slow comfortable fat tire bike on "their streets... "

No, the problem is not hills, it is attitude... primarily the autocentric attitude of both motorists and "Effective Cyclists."

no doubt. or an old 3 speed. or an old racer turned commuter. or any bike for that matter.

but there is something about an upright, non uptight riding position that changes one's mindset and body language.
and street clothes and shoes... and a proper bell. ding ding.

Most errands take place within a mile or two of home??? :eek: Do you live in the same San Diego that I live in?

Like I said, there are a few 'hoods where that might work, including parts of Clairemont and PB, but by far the vast majority of SD is an exception to that.

And the guy going to Vons for a 6-pack of Bud is unlikely to ever want to ride a bike, while the soccer mom with 2 kids in tow is also unlikely to want to haul her cartfull of groceries home by bike. In other words, the market for non-commute utility cycling is a small fraction of the total population. Mostly single folks with relatively lots of extra time on their hands, time to make longer trips more frequently (because you simply can't carry by bike what you can carry in an Explorer - especially uphill - so you have to make smaller loads and go more often).