Bicure

Synon.

It's.

called.

the.

law.

Read.

it.



You may not batter someone because they startled you.

Period.

Cyclists who startle the elderly (I don't do it & don't advocate it) are NOT the problem.

Kager kultur is.

It terrorizes EVERYBODY in EVERY way, and cyclists get caught in the cross-hairs between the (most) vulnerable group (peds) and the most dangerous group (cagers).

Non-cagers (peds & cyclists) are forced into a tiny margin by Kager Kultur, and we sometimes have collisions.

This time, it happened in a crosswalk when a startled person battered someone who unintentionally startled her AS HE SAFELY PASSED HER BY.

Pay attention to the man behind the curtain, Synny.

It's ol' Henry Ford, and he's laffin' his ass off as we fight about this.

G
O
T
T
I
T
?

syn0n

Okay, you can save your little propaganda spiel for a thread where it's relavant. We're talking about a very specific example of a cyclist violating the law and whether or what occured as a result of the cyclists' behavior was acceptable in this particular case. Nobody is trying to set a precident such as "battery is okay when you're irritated". But the eyes of the law don't see in black and white; if this were to go to court, I imagine nothing would come of it, and it has nothing to do with with the baroness's aristocratic standing either. As has been echoed by many of the posters in this thread, given the circumstances, the baroness was in the right. There are shades of grey, Bicure, and similarly, circumstances have a significant bearing on the way laws are enforced.

So please, stop defaulting to "lolz karz = satan" for every one of your inane little posts when the topic has nothing whatsoever to do with automobiles. As far as "kager kulture" goes, it's the cyclist who is afflicted with it here, if anyone is. The old lady had the ROW, and as a pedestrian, takes the right of way over all wheeled vehicles at a crossing. The cyclist ran the red to save a few seconds or because he was lazy, putting his laziness or hurry before the law, and before the safety of those obeying it. The latter is a "kager" attitude. I find it difficult to take "advocates" such as yourself seriously, because you suggest cyclists can do no fault (not true) and you always blame everyone else for all the problems.

So no, I don't accept what your notion that motorists caused the baroness to whack a law-breaking cyclist. Where you guys come up with this crap is certainly beyond me.

You got that?

rwp

Red light runners kill; handbags don't.

BIG difference.

San Rensho 

Well thats not so clear, one of the perks of peerage is immunity from arrest.

syn0n

If it was your grandmother who hit John Q. Cyclist in exactly the same circumstances, the court wouldn't do anything to her. They'd side with her argument that she was put in great danger, and communicated that in the only way that would get through in a split-second.

Fear&Trembling

Peers are not immune from arrest where criminal matters are concerned!

Bicure

Aaaaahhhh!

I'm here w/me granny, and she was VERY startled by your post, Synon.

So startled that she'll be going shopping for a baseball bat tomorrow, and she'll teach ya some manners, by crikey!

But only cuz she's startled, ya know?

I assured her that you'll be cheering her on as she beats ya, btw.



RWP - MOTOR VEHICLES that run red lights kill.

Peds who batter cycs negotiating traffic may cause a death.

Startling somebody ain't grounds for battery, folks.

(Just wait'll you see them throw the book at my poor granny!)

syn0n

Oh, wow. You're pretty desperate, aren't you? Quite a bit of hyperbole in one little post there!

Okay, first of all, an aluminum bat isn't equal to a handbag. Or, I haven't seen any professional players swinging at baseballs with their mothers purse, anyway. Secondly, your grandmother won't be hitting me because I don't break the law by running red lights and violating pedestrian ROW in the first place. But if she hit me with a baseball bat, then yeah, there would be a problem. Nobody would excuse the baroness' behavior if she hit the guy with a weapon. But she hit him with a handbag not a baseball bat, you moron. There's no comparison.

You need to look up the word "circumstance". That's what all of this is based on. You seem to have difficulty understanding that the circumstances in this particular case are why other cyclists in this forum are actually okay with what transpired!

And please, just shut up. We are not, for the last time, discussing automobiles and related dangers in this thread. Stop defaulting to "karz = apocalypse" everytime you can't successfully argue your position. You keep moaning about how a pedestrian can kill a cyclist (by hitting said cyclist with a handbag, no less), but you fail to recognize that a cyclist poses a much greater danger to pedestrians, especially the elderly. You're just a cager on a bike, that's it. Newsflash: you don't cycle in a vacuum. If you run into an elderly woman with your bike, don't be surprised if she dies.

TRaffic Jammer

I'm so glad I can not only see in full colour but in shades of grey as well. It must suck to only be able to see in black and white.

AlmostTrick

Considering that both did something wrong, and neither were hurt, it seems like a whole lot of whacking off going on here over almost nothing.

jcm

Perhaps a bit of Haiku to frame this in some reasonable perspective:

In London there's laws,
'bout riding in the lane.
Scofflaw must beware.

Peerage, or no friends,
tough old lady hand-bagger.
Born to better times.

Young, impatient fool,
one good whacking, down he goes.
Jolly good show, ma'am.

"Should have smack'd him more,
young hoodlum on his bikey"
What would Winston say?

JoeyBike

Last week a delivery guy pushing a hand truck stepped off the curb in the middle of the block RIGHT in front of me, totally disregarding my existence even though I was cracking along the narrow street at 18 mph. Did I whip out my frame pump and smash his cell phone against his head like I would have LOVED to? No. Why not? Because I am not a privileged, spoiled, royal turd that can get away with assault because a Jaywalker startled me.

Another reason - I didn't have time to do anything but avoid the collision. Not one extra nanosecond. The "lady" in the story had time to see, plan, cock her purse, and then swing it at the rider. That's assault, plain and simple.

jcm

I'd rather call her a dead-on shot. Kiplingesque if you ask me, which you aren't of course, because you are wallowing in your snot.

You should be more aware when "...cracking along the narrow street at 18mph." "Not one extra nanosecond." You indict yourself of stupidity, plain and simple.

JoeyBike

And what exactly have you just indicted yourself with here? The speed limit on the narrow street is 20mph. 18 would be a careful speed assuming mindless knuckleheads don't jump out into the roadway without concern. Don't blame the victim if he/she is acting within the law and reasonable with the situation. Had I better lineage and hit him with a handbag full of hammers, would you then applaud me?

I resist the temptation to type words that would get me banned sir.

jcm

I've been plenty stupid on occasion, so I'm not setting myself higher than the next guy. However, using your descriptors, I can only deduce that there was a lack of foresight on your part. Sure, the delivery guy commited a foul - s##t happens. That's why I say, again using your narrative, that there was a lack of awareness on your part. 18 in a 20 is only safe and reasonable as long as there are no visible potential hazards. Even if that guy was standing still, I would consider him a potential as long as there was no eye contact.

Consider the foolish and common habit of bike commuters who routinely ride to the right in an angle-in parking zone. It's a rear-out collision just waiting to happen. A more skilled and aware rider will ride to the left side until the zone is passed in order to aviod the potential hazard.

It's the same thing about people on sidewalks when a bike is transiting at higher speeds. Not only can they usually not hear you coming, you are also going too fast to gradually enter their peripheral range of vision. Ya gotta watch carefully in order to gain those nanoseconds that you didn't have. Expect the unexpected. Bike crashing is a Full Contact Experience and it always hurts. It's on you. The ped has the ROW.

atbman

So how come Lord Archer, successful author (terrible writer of English, but writes page-turners I'm told) was put inside for perjury?

Joeybike Do please read my previous post. The lady is a life peer - a peerage created for political reasons. Such peerages are not inheritable. The reasons for not charging her were:

a) No complaint as to her behaviour was made by the traumatised victim of this appalling assault
b) No magistrates court is going to convict her of assault (or battery as some of the more absurd claims would have) and the odds are she would be applauded in the media and something over 95% (at a guess) of the public would applaud her.

Or, to put it another way, she glimpsed a rider coming towards her and swung, instinctively, at someone she believed might endanger her.

By the way, how, exactly, do you cock a purse?

Bicure

JoeyBike wrote:

"Last week a delivery guy pushing a hand truck stepped off the curb in the middle of the block RIGHT in front of me, totally disregarding my existence even though I was cracking along the narrow street at 18 mph. Did I whip out my frame pump and smash his cell phone against his head like I would have LOVED to? No. Why not? Because I am not a privileged, spoiled, royal turd that can get away with assault because a Jaywalker startled me.

Another reason - I didn't have time to do anything but avoid the collision. Not one extra nanosecond. The "lady" in the story had time to see, plan, cock her purse, and then swing it at the rider. That's assault, plain and simple."

And he is thus my hero! (He gets it, plain & simple.)

Synon wrote:

"you moron."

and

"just shut up."

And really, in the face of such overwhelming eloquence & logic, what can I say?

syn0n

How do you think I'm going to evalute you when you say "purse = baseball bat"? How isn't that moronic? Do explain.

JoeyBike

A purse and a baseball bat are both objects.

The woman struck a cyclist with an OBJECT. I don't care if it was a pillow or a battle axe. Neither would a judge.

atbman

Someone threw a marshmallow at me from a bridge and it struck me. I demand that the DA prosecute the miscreant just as he would if he had thrown a concrete block. They are both OBJECTS and I could have swerved and come off in my startlement.

In any case, if he had come off, it would have allowed a member of the public to detain him until the police arrived, so her action was justified

I am going to start a new thread titled "Do you carry a handbag while riding". We could then discuss the relative merits of a Gucci or a Miu Miu and whether a handloaded half-brick or a sock full of lead shot was better, not to mention the different type of carry strap and whether a waistband hindered its swift usage (or cocking).

Ps. Is it my imagination, or do a small and prejudiced handful of forumers complain bitterly about near misses by drivers breaking the law? And don't an absolutley tiny number of them respond by hitting motor vehicle, possibly startling the driver into making a mistake and crashing?

Nah. Just imagining it.

UnsafeAlpine

I have been known to, in retaliation, kick a vehicle as I caught it at a traffic light. Being startled, and then angry, I chose violence to solve my problem. People have a tendancy towards violence when a percieved threat is upon them. This does not excuse the action of the Baronness, but it does explain why she did it. Ultimately, no harm was done to the Baronness, and no major injuries occurred to the bicyclist (as far as we know). Hopefully, the biker will think twice about breaking this particlular law again, and the old woman will not hold this against all bikers. Unfortunatly, violence doesn't usually lead to this outcome, but we can still hope.

San Rensho 

To the Royalist defenders, I give you:

SEX PISTOLS LYRICS

"God Save The Queen"

God save the queen
The fascist regime
They made you a moron
Potential H-bomb

God save the queen
She ain't no human being
There is no future
In England's dreaming

Don't be told what you want
Don't be told what you need
There's no future, no future,
No future for you

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
'Cause tourists are money
And our figurehead
Is not what she seems

Oh God save history
God save your mad parade
Oh Lord God have mercy
All crimes are paid

When there's no future
How can there be sin
We're the flowers in the dustbin
We're the poison in your human machine
We're the future, your future

God save the queen
We mean it man
We love our queen
God saves

God save the queen
We mean it man
And there is no future
In England's dreaming

No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future,
No future for me

No future, no future,
No future for you
No future, no future
For you

AlmostTrick

Just when it seemed this thread was spent, we get another song... Cool.

cooker

And based on your username and sig you aspire to be one.

jcm

Now that's illiteration, not that tripe from The Sex Pistols