cyclezealot

Right now I am mad as hell. Just saw photos from LA TV station of mangled bikes and covererd bodies of two dead cyclists. Observers report, it appeared motorist intentionally killed two cyclists by mowing them down. Happened on Mullholland Dr. in LA. Amazingly, one dead cyclists was newphew of county prosecutor. Driver escaped.
I have witnessed anti-cyclist rage by having ice cream cones and soda cans thrown at fellow cyclists. In the US cycling is not understood and often not tolerated.
I believe those who do not stand up for their rights loose them, maybe even your life. What to do?? In most metropolitian areas there are bicycle advocacy groups. I think actions could be like cyclist orgazizations remind the county attorney, cyclist have rights and we will fight for our rights. Remind motorists we are on the road and will be on the road. If states don't protest us, they should not collect sales taxes on our bikes. I think we need do something,advocate something. What?
One thing, the pending petroleum problems will assure there will be more of us, not less.

mike

Don't panic. Cars aren't hunting you down.

In LA - home of the drive by shooting- , some people kill others for no reason at all. Seems they like to do it from the convenience and comfort of their cars too.

Of course, it happens other places too.

Your best bet is not to piss anybody off anywhere for any reason.

ViciousCycle

I agree. These things are really sickening. And this type of murder is such a graphic type of murder, the stuff that nightmares are made of.

cyclezealot, since you mention advocacy groups, you might be interested in the League of American Bicyclists' Web site. https://www.bikeleague.org/ It lists information for a number of national, state, and local advocacy groups. There are several groups listed for California. Some advocacy groups have a very grassroots feel to them, so you can feel like it is possible to accomplish something.

(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with the League of American Cyclists. My only affiliation is with the Chicagoland Bicycle Federation.)

Chris L

I've never been pro death penalty, but certain events are making me seriously reconsider that position.

John E

Thanks for the post, C.z. That hits too close to home; on many weekends during the 1970s, I rode Mulholland Drive with Velo Club LaGrange (www.lagrange.org). You said the driver "escaped." Unless the car involved was stolen, he can probably be traced (I hope).

Motorists who intentionally attack pedestrians and bicyclists with their cars are terrorists, no different from those who bomb buses or fly airplanes into buildings. Fortunately, L.A.'s cycling community is pretty active; I will contact the Los Angeles Wheelmen and LaGrange to see what they are doing about this outrage.

Matadon

No, motorists who intentionally attack pedestrians and cyclists are murderers; motorists are terrorists only if they are attempting to use their vehicles in an organized and pre-meditated manner to force all cyclists off the road, or to force the passage of laws that have the same effect.





Sorry to be such a usage-Nazi, but I've been getting really irritated at hearing "terrorism this", and "terrorist that"; just because someone is the Prime A**hole of the Universe doesn't make them a terrorist.



That being said, it's things like this [the original incident] that make me want to carry a firearm; not because I fear for my life, but because I believe most motorists would be more polite to cyclists if there were more incidents of the reverse road-rage kind; ex., motorist chases cyclist; motorist catches cyclist; cyclist unloads eight forty-five calibre rounds into the front of motorist's brand-new Mercedes in self-defense. Motorist discovers that stupidity isn't insured, and that German engine components aren't cheap, and that shoulder blades take a deal of time to heal.

Chris L

OK, so if you can just clarify the difference between your definitions of "murderer" and "terrorist" I might understand. It might just be my own ignorance, but they appear incredibly similar to me.

Agreed. However, I think in this case, the charge is a little stronger than being an a$$hole.

And cyclist discovers that bullets don't have sufficient mass or momentum to physically stop a mercedes. The truth of the matter is that you don't stop a fight by throwing another punch.

Gus Riley

I think what he means is that Terrorism is an act or attack by an organized group in pursuit of specific goals or results in an attempt(s) to force other groups or organizations to make concessions when other means fail to satisfy their goals.

Murder doesn't necessarily have a specific "group" or organizational goal to be committed.

wabbit

From what I understand, the two guys were drive-by shot on their bikes, not run down and killed. One of them was the nephew of Johnnie Cochran, OJ's defense attorney. They were riding their bikes and a guy chased them and shot them.

Drive-by shootings are usually linked to gangs, drugs or other no-good elements of society- it doesn't sound like they were killed for being on their bikes. Well, the fact that it involved a prominent family means they'll probably make a huge effort to get the shooter.

cyclezealot

Wabbit. I caught just a news flash. Maybe this is just normal LA activity?

Matadon

My point, exactly; furthermore, the murders would have to be conducted in such a way as to modify the behavior of the target population through fear. That's terrorism.

So this isn't terrorism; if he had left a note saying that he would randomly mow down cyclists until laws were passed restricting them to large pink tricycles that rode only on the sidewalk, then that would be domestic terrorism.

Hope that helps, Chris.

wabbit

That's what it sounds like- that these guys were involved with some seedy characters. LA is notorious for drive-by shootings. That is one city I wouldn't live in for any reason. That's why I didn't become a movie star!

cyclezealot

wabbit. having lived in some rest belt cities in the midwest and lived outside some of Florida's older metropolitian areas, you get used to it. Nothing is as bad as Miami. Nowhere. LA looks great compared to that. have cycled about the outer perimiter of LA along the beaches. that was ok.
PS- If John E finds out it was anything other than drug activity, appreciate a follow up. I though up in Mulluholand, it was pretty nice, except for traffic up there.

Chris L

But how does anyone really know what this guy's intentions were anyway. I've long since given up trying to understand how the mind of the motoring primate works. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if it was his intention to force cyclists off the road, but he just wasn't smart (or literate) enough to write a note.

But is it any better? Certainly not in my opinion.

cyclezealot

Chris. I like that motoring primate. Good line. Watch those fools, they are totally irrational. Around here, we have nuts passing on a yellow line, going up a mountain. Totally impossible to see- some of the locations- I have heard of.
Yes, I have read too many reports, over the years, of cyclists being chased and forced off the road- in a case of road rage. It is not uncommon. In the papers every couple months. And I have experienced similiar situations, first hand more often than I like to remember.

Chris L

A friend of mine had someone literally try to drive through his house a few months back. Either that, or the guy managed to misjudge a corner on a totally straight stretch of road (is that humanly or even primately possible?)

Chris L

While we're talking about it, can I just make a request that from this point forward "road rage" be referred to by it's less PC but more accurate name of "acting like a dickhead"?

chewa

Seconded Chris!

Having read this thread I am so glad I live in Scotland, where shootings are still big news.

JonR

I'm afraid it's definitely possible for a primate to drive right through a building at the end of a straightaway. There's a little independent fast-food cafe in Kansas City that has the misfortune to be so placed, and cars have driven right into it at least three or four times. The city refuses to put protective barriers up for fear of INJURING THE MOTORISTS.

I'm not kidding.

Chris L

My friend has a big stroppy concrete wall in front of his house. Drunks trying to take a short-cut home have some trouble getting through that

JonR

There have been stories in the paper about the crashes into the restaurant I mentioned. The city's response as to why it doesn't do something seems to add up to preferring that customers and staff of the restaurant get killed, than that the city face a lawsuit from the driver or his/her survivors because a city-placed barrier prevented fulfillment of the drunk or distracted motorist's mission of destruction.

The automobile wins again!

Chris L

Until somebody sues the restaurant???

LightBoy

Drunk crashes into restaurant, crash injurs person, person sues restaurant, restaurant sues city, city realizes mistakes, bikes inherit the Earth?

Well, it's a thought anyway.