No it doesn't... that's true.

WTF? He wasn't changing lanes yet...why signal? This is screwy logic. I can look back without the intention of changing lanes, too. This was hardly a difficult situation for the motorist to comprehend.

The act of looking back is often read by other drivers as a desire to turn - so well in fact that one often does not need to hand signal to negotiate a turn. You may not have the intention to turn when you look back, but others can not read your mind.

For about a year I was very frustrated by this as often when I looked back to find if I could prepare for a turn that there would be a motorist present who would slow thinking I wanted to turn then, but it would have been better to merge behind them. Confusion resulted. Timings got messed up. I resorted to hand waving motorist by me and other non-standard hand signals to help reduce the ambiguity.

This was the primary reason I bought a mirror, so I could asses traffic conditions before looking back and/or signaling. It solved all that problem and more.

Al

If you wait until you're 50ft from a junction before changing lanes in order to turn left and leave yourself no time to signal your intention to do so because you need to brake, then you need to look to your own positioning and bike handling.

The idea that you are exempt from signalling your intentions to other road users because you don't have the necessary skills to do so is, I'm afraid, risky.

If you have the usual US brake setup of right hand/rear brake, then signalling while braking isn't difficult. In any case, you should have signalled, moved into the left turn position and then braked.

My sympathies, such as they are, are with a driver who thought you might be going to do something, but wasn't sure what, since you weren't indicating your intentions

It is frustrating to be driving and have no idea what a cyclist is going to do. I have many drivers near me who are very courteous to cyclist. Unfortunately I have seen MANY roadies and Nest riding DUI types who feel no need to signal and simply pull into and out of traffic at the drop of a hat. That is VERY disconcerting, particularly if you are older or simply unprepared for it. I imagine that the driver you encountered had had this happen many times before. It becomes frustrating and they lash out. Be glad that he was aware of you, enough so to take notice of your intentions. If you can not safely signal while on your bike then you are either out of your comfort level or in above your head. At any rate you need to slow down, because at no point should you not be able to take basic safety measures and evasive maneuvers.

I pretty well understood what you meant. I was a bit reactionary in my earlier post. Apologies

But this is what gets me. As if I need to signal my intentions to do nothing? It's not my fault or the OPs fault that this driver has possibly had negative experiences with cyclists before and it's not my responsibility to signal if I'm not going to do anything.

No problem.
You do not have to signal if your intention is to do nothing (but even then it can help in some situations.) Safe and cooperative cycling is not just about doing what is required and especially not about giving up on your own full responsibility for communication.

However in this situation the cyclist did already signal a desire. They may not have meant to but they did. So in this case they need to signal to clear up any ambiguity or confusion that results from a cyclist looking back, especially a cyclist looking back several times (not that the OP did) and is slowing down and/or ever slightly drifting leftward - all things that cyclists merging often do (conscious or not) and are subtle but are easily picked up my other drivers as clues to what a cyclist wants to or may do.

Al

Yes, the driver could have made that conclusion. However, I'm not going to move left when a car is approaching from behind at twice my speed, and it wouldn't occur to me to signal a left turn when my intent is to let to car pass.

That clarifies your other post about mirrors, which I found somewhat cryptic otherwise.

Given my low speed and the low traffic, I think I had plenty of time for making a left turn and, were I inclined, after signaling. I'll add that the approach to the intersection was slightly uphill.

I don't know how much thought you gave to that recommendation, but I think looking back for traffic is the first thing to do in my situation.

That sounds like a plausible explanation of driver's state of mind.

I don't think I did anything particularly unpredictable up to the point where we were stopped at the sign. However, I consider cutting in front of him to make the left turn after that to be a questionable move, but I'm not sure what else I could have done. I didn't want to get into any argument or anything like that.

To me, the incident was an isolated incident where the driver bizarrely overreacted. My experience has been that lane positioning has worked well for communicating my intent in traffic, and my use of hand signals is mostly limited to communication within group rides. However, I must admit that my personal sense of the motorist perspective is more limited than that of most American adults, as I last drove a car a few months after passing driver's ed in the mid 1980s. I'm not convinced that hand signals are worthwhile, but perhaps someone will post something that will change my mind.

If I look back when I don't have a mirror and I note a driver slowing, I'll then signal and merge in front of them (as appropriate for relative speed and noting further slowing, etc.)

Sorry about not going into more detail about the mirror comment. It seems I've posted about this specific benefits of mirror many times so it gets old to type if again and again.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...0&postcount=11
https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...0&postcount=38
etc

Al

I don't quite understand the problem here. If you are sharing the road with much faster and heavier vehicles, then indicating your intentions, in plenty of time, if possible, enables everyone to know what you wish to do. It also gives them the opportunity to allow you to merge/cross lanes. My last 3 years commute, before retiring, involved me in crossing from LH side of two lanes (UK) to RH side of second lane in order to turn right at roundabout/traffic circle. The speed limit was 70mph, tho' it was more like 50mph and slowing near the roundabout, during the evening rush hour. Signalling resulted in drivers easing off the accelerator and allowing me to move across - their actions were usually accompanied by a quick flash of the headlights.

Since it was a slight uphill drag, I wasn't travelling at more than about 15/18mph but other road users seemed to appreciate clear signals and co-operate. I'm not saying that it always happened immediately, but I never failed to get across.

I accept, from reading this forum for the last few years, that there are probably more ignorant drivers in the US - we have our share - but any traffic system requires co-operation from the vast majority of road users and if you give them the chance, most will do so.

Nice concept... and while I do signal and do hope for co-operation from other motorists, I can tell you from both driving and cycling experiences that often there is a sense of "competition" in some places that makes signaling counterproductive. (that American "independent thing" no doubt... )

Often here on the freeways a motorist signaling will be cut off by those that feel they do not want that vehicle merging in front of them... and this same mentality gets taken to the streets... motorists will cut off a cyclist that is signaling simply because the motorist probably feels they don't want to have to slow down or deal with the cyclist.

None the less, I continue to signal. I feel being predictable and indicating my intentions is still the best practice.

+ 1
It takes no effort to signal and every time you do it you have a chance to show a motorist that cyclists are largely responsible users of the road.

I find that motorists are far more courteous to me when I am cycling and I signal and communicate vs. when I am motoring and do the same.

That competition you speak of is more so a motorist-motorist activity. Even then as a motorist it is quite workable to drop out of the game both in actions, and more importantly, in mindset - makes for far more enjoyable driving. Let others get ahead and don't mind if they have good reason to or not, they feel better and you don't care.

Al

I tend to agree...

However, on the "competitive" end of things, I think So Cal drivers tend to be a bit more wrapped up then other areas of the country. If I am driving along and signal well ahead of my desired lane change or exit, often times that "drop out of the game" mentality will leave me stuck in the same lane as motorist after motorist flies by my vehicle, which is doing speed limit... no matter how long they have had to give way to my request (which is what a turn signal really is) I find that eventually I have to make a very definitive move to make a gap. I have also had motorists respond to my definitive move with one of their own. (The really annoying issue is when you are trying to get on the freeway... and someone is trying to get off and they don't let you move over while they hold their position... they pass you to then turn in)

Cycling is not nearly so bad... as you were indicating earlier that a head turn sometimes can be just enough... I too have found that to be true... as long as there is not a huge speed difference. But when I am on a 45-50MPH arterial and need to make a left turn... sometimes it takes more then a head turn and arm signal... it takes moving over a bit to show that you really do intend to make that move. It is a gutsy thing to do, and you really need to verify that the traffic will slow down for you... (I find that staring down the driver while you make the move helps).

It really should not be all that difficult... as "atbman" said, it should be a co-operative thing... but it just ain't so.

Here is a copy of the 7 basic Texas bike laws

Cyclist Rules of the Road

These "rules of the road" are based on Texas Transportation Code statutes. Find the complete bicycle code at www dot biketexas dot org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=65


1. Bicyclists have the rights and duties of other vehicle operators: (551.101)
Yes, this means you have to stop at stop signs and red lights, but cars are required to yield right-of-way to a bicycle when appropriate, just as to any other vehicle. Same Road, Same Rights, Same Rules

2. Ride as near to the curb as practicable (feasible) and go in the same direction as other traffic: (551.103)
Near the curb is subjective (we recommend leaving a cushion of about three feet) but the law gives a cyclist the right to take the lane when necessary for safety and when turning.

3. At least one hand on the handlebars (two are safer): (551.102c)
One is OK when signaling but two when turning works better.

4. Use hand and arm signals: (545.107)
Point the way you are going, let the other operators know what you want to do.

5. One rider per saddle: (551.102a)
Don't let your friends share your bike while riding unless you're both on a tandem. Pegs are not for passengers.

6. Must have a white light on the front and a red reflector or red light on the rear (for riding at night): (551.104b)
The light is primarily so people can see you coming from their side, where their headlights do not shine on your reflectors. The law, effective as of Sept. 2001, states that a red light can replace a red reflector.

7. Brakes capable of making the braked wheel skid: (551.104a)
Don't test that front brake to see if the wheel will skid while riding, especially down hill

In general, I support signaling when safe. I understand that sometimes you need that hand on the bar, and sometimes you also need it to brake, especially the left. I'll try to at give a quick signal when I can, and start soon enough that I can keep it up for a while before having to put my hand back. It can be tricky.

In the OP's situation, if I understand it, he was expecting the rapidly approaching car to pass before the OP really had to move to the left, which is understandable. It seems then like it was the motorist who confused the situation by slowing down next to the OP and staying with him, preventing him from moving left when he should have. How could the OP have predicted that? That said, I would have still tried to make eye contact with the driver (perhaps with kind of a "what the heck are you doing" expression) and signalled emphatically before pulling ahead, OR, if a more rational sense prevailed, maybe just waved him on through.

Stop signs especially seem to promote the reptilian "must pass bicycle" response in motorists. When approaching one, unless the car behind me is really going fast, I tend to move out into the center well ahead of time to discourage that, bike lane or no. (Around here, it's mostly no.) And sometimes the stupid motorist tries to pass anyway and ends up stopped way over in the opposing lane!

It seems like you were taking more for granted than that, because it still doesn't make sense. I looked back, saw a car about to overtake me, and your advice was:

Staying in the bike lane and waiting for the car to pass still makes more sense.

Out of curiosity, is it possible that the driver saw you make the previous two or three turns without signaling? That might explain his behaviour a little.

I have a quick question about signaling: How is a right turn supposed to be signaled? The standard method taught in drivers' manuals is to point the left arm up (bent at the elbow) for a right turn and extend it straight out to the left for a left turn. But the illustrations I've seen in bike books usually show the rider extending his right arm straight out to the right for a right turn, i.e., the exact mirror image of the left turn signal. That seems logical, but since it's not the signal drivers are taught, are they going to recognize it? I've never read or heard any statement that "bike signals are different" but the illustrations seem to indicate that they are different, at least for right turns. Sadly, I haven't seen enough cyclists signaling anything over the years to be able to form an opinion on which type of signal is more commonly used.

He held back on signalling because it was too late to change lanes, the car was overtaking too fast. He was going to wait until the car passed him and then signal (I hope) and change lanes, which would be the correct thing to do. It was the driver who caused problems by second guessing him. If the driver wanted to be helpful he should have passed or stayed back, not hemmed the cyclist in to give him a presumptive lecture.


You can check your local laws to be sure, My understanding is we can use either. Drivers have to use the bent left arm because they can't reach the right window and even if they could, their arm would be hidden by the body of the car from any car to their left. Cyclists can use the right arm because it's visible to others, and the message is pretty obvious.

I often point where I'm going in ambiguous situations, like a combined through/turn lane (as well as positioning myself appropriately within the lane to avoid being squeezed).

EDIT: apparently this is the law in Texas:


To the OP: When the driver yelled at you to signal, you should have said "Certainly, which way way am I turning?"

Good points, but then consider that motorists have probably forgotten the "official signal" anyway. It all comes down to educating the public... and frankly there are not enough (any) Public Service Announcements regarding cyclists on the road... I hear a PSA for boating two times a day... on the radio, but not one word about cycling.

Technically, either point with the right hand or used the upraised left arm... frankly, I rarely signal right turns anyway... as I am so close to the curb/corner that I am not likely to be signaling to anyone.

Now the exception to this is when I do happen to go from a straight only to a right turn only lane... then I use my right arm and point to where I want to go.

Classic!

Like the motorist that gave me a hard time for being in the middle of the road when he was turning right... I wonder where I "should" have been.