Szczuldo

speed limit is not too slow, you just have a false mentality that driving 20 over actually gets you anywhere faster...And if you are driving long distance on the interstate, chances are your average speed will be around 65-70mph no matter how fast you drive. I've done plenty of tests in town with friends, anywhere from 10 miles to a mile. Out of the dozens of tests we did, there was only one time when the speeding car got away and that was when they were lucky and caught all the lights. It's all about luck...not speed.

zeytoun

I've found the same. Getting over 20mph average is near impossible on surface streets in any city in the US. And even when a trip involves a lot of arterials with high speed limits, little traffic, and occasional lights, it was still hard to get above that much.

randya

...so if you speed in town you just spend more time sitting at red lights...

uke

^ That basically describes the driving patterns of most Americans. It's a drag race from one stop sign to the next. Gas, brake, gas, brake, over and over again.

pacificaslim

We are talking about highway driving here, not in town. As cyclists, we all understand the necessity for slower speeds in town. But out on the highway, different strategies may be required. (And of course it saves time: drives that I do in 3hrs on my own take me 4 hrs when i have my wife and kids with me).

zeytoun

You don't make any sense.

At first you say that your view is that it is not safe to go the speed limit, because the flow of traffic is faster...

Then you say that there is 20MPH average speed differential (simple math based on your post) between when you drive with your wife and kids, and when you drive alone....

So, either you truly believe that it is dangerous to drive slower, but do it anyways, putting your family at risk. Or you know that your faster driving is dangerous, so you slow it down when your wife and kids are present....

Lets not pretend that our speeding habits are rational decisions based on safety statistics, ok?

randya

you're talking about highway driving, which is largely irrelevant as far as cyclists are concerned. Let 'em all kill each other Road Warrior style if that's what they want to do.

Unfortunately, the speeding drivers don't stop speeding when they leave the highway, most of them drive in town as if they were still on the highway.

uke

So you're willing to speed when you know your mistakes won't result in the deaths of your entire family. But you slow down when your wife and children travel with you. Unless their extra mass overwhelms your car to the point where you require an extra hour to make those three hour trips, it sounds like you realize your driving habits are far too risky to force upon your loved ones. This, as zeytoun points out, contradicts your mantra of higher speeds being safer for everyone.

pacificaslim

It depends on how you look at "dangerous" vs. "safe". I look at it as a probability of something happening. There is a difference between less probable to have an accident, but it having more severe consequences, and being more likely to have an accident (caused by others hitting me) but with less severe consequences.

If you think that through, you'll maybe understand why different choices make sense depending on me traveling by myself in my 40-year-old Italian convertible, and me traveling with my whole family in a "regular" car. Mainly, more potential injuries in the car makes the math add up differently and makes you prefer the option of slightly more likely less-severe injuries instead of the option of less likely more-severe injuries.

There is also of course a difference in concentration available for driving by myself vs. with my family in the car and the cars themselves are quite different (they couldn't fit in my car) and that is an influence on how to drive each car (mine handles a lot better as well since it is designed for enjoyable driving, not transportation). This also alters how the balance sheet adds up when making driving style choices. There becomes a tipping point at which slower makes sense.

FWIW, I was in an accident with my whole family in the car. I was driving moderately in the rain at night and a drunk (he had 5 previous dui convictions!) passed us and clipped the drivers side of our car sending us into the right hand guardrail. We were very lucky to escape with moderate injuries. But this accident never would have happened had I been driving by myself because the guy never would have been passing me in the first place. Perhaps this single experience has altered my outlook on "safe" driving a lot more than it should. But it is what it is and I'm a stubborn *******.