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Cyclists at risk for bone loss!

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Cyclists at risk for bone loss!

Old 02-18-09, 01:53 PM
  #26  
gosmsgo
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Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge View Post
Not fun. Do you know how bad yours was (T-score)?

Mine first showed up when I was a little past 20 in the form of compression fractures of vertebrae. Took me many years to discover the root cause, which turned out to be a wheat allergy. I've now got that under control (hopefully), but I definitely don't want to have something else (cycling) undo any improvements I've made.
I dont recall. Yours was probably worse than mine. Like I say mine was osteopenia (sp) which is a very mild form of bone loss. Still very odd for someone my age and gender.

Mine was corrected when I had another done 1 year later through calcium supplements and weight lifting like squats.

I have read that soda is suspected in bone loss and I drink the **** out of diet soda so thats another issue.
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Old 02-18-09, 01:55 PM
  #27  
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Iam over 50 Iam at risk of everything besides I already got a bad back lifting weights makes it a LOT worse. Besides I don't like lifting weights
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Old 02-18-09, 02:06 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by pipes View Post
Iam over 50 Iam at risk of everything besides I already got a bad back lifting weights makes it a LOT worse. Besides I don't like lifting weights
: )


Well you might as well pick up smoking. Life is short.
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Old 02-18-09, 02:32 PM
  #29  
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So we're not replenishing calories burned during riding, and on top of that we're leeching out calcium and other nutrients!!! I guess that's just more justification for pizza and beer after a good ride! I knew I loved cycling for a reason.
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Old 02-18-09, 02:33 PM
  #30  
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Thanks for the Pubmed idea. The waters only get murkier.

"Non-weightbearing exercise may increase lumbar spine bone mineral density in healthy postmenopausal women"

"Bone mineral density after bicycle ergometry training" (No significant change noted)

"Modification of bone quality by extreme physical stress..." (supports the theory)

"Calcium requirements for the athlete" (indicates a balanced diet may be all an athlete needs to counter calcium losses from sweat)


It does look like there's more data out there (though Pubmed does not seem to have "dozens" of articles), but the data isn't universally supporting the claim; and at least one study is looking at a group that's riding 10,000+ miles per year, including 100+ miles a day for nearly 30 days in a row, often in extreme heat. Even advanced amateurs don't ride like that.

I.e. the article is still a little thin on details, doesn't fully cite the studies it relies on, doesn't distinguish much between pros and amateurs, and adopts a slightly hysterical tone.

As to your personal experiences, gosmsgo, I do not dispute that you had low bone density; only that given the small sample group from your study, it is not definitive that cycling was the sole or primary contributing factor - especially since it doesn't sound like there was a control group of non-exercisers. Unfortunately individual anecdotes are both highly persuasive and poor substitutes for statistics, so while I have no doubts about your credibility, there is only so much weight I can give to your experiences.

By the way, you are correct that my point #4 does not challenge the veracity of the basic claim, nor is that the intention. I'm simply pointing out that if an activity like running counters bone density loss, but increases the chances of other injuries (e.g. torn ACL's), the net result is counterproductive rather than beneficial.

The article may still be correct, it's good to know there is some research on this topic, and if I was a pro I'd make sure to get my bone density checked periodically. But I'm not seeing the claim as a "slam dunk" yet, especially for amateur cyclists.
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Old 02-18-09, 02:35 PM
  #31  
GodsBassist
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Originally Posted by Metzinger View Post
Wrong. 25% loss over three weeks for some TDF riders.

https://www.afpafitness.com/articles/...pid-bone-loss/
Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
Wrong.

Its the sweating that causes the mineral loss. Your average overweight couch potato probably has great bones. They are getting plenty of nutrients and not sweating for hours per day like the average bicyclist.
Ahh, I didn't see that. Although the OP article mentions that it could be from sweat and the afpafitness one doesn't even mention the word, the concept makes a LOT of sense.

I would still like to see bikers vs. couch potatoes, though. And if cycling is the cause, casual bikers vs. professional ones... now where did I leave that research grant... I know it's around here somewhere.
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Old 02-18-09, 10:36 PM
  #32  
unterhausen
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Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
Why dont you compare how much calcium is leeched in one hour of sweat versus how much is in the american diet.

Here is a dumbed down study of a basketball team that should make sense to everyone.

https://whyfiles.org/055oddball/sweat.html
Thanks for the link, it appears that my common-sense approach to the problem was confirmed by the researcher profiled in the article. Since the calcium is lost in sweat, cross-training that makes you sweat will simply compound the problem. I can't imagine a exercise regime that is more high-impact than basketball, and yet these basketball players were shown to have significant bone density loss.
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Old 02-19-09, 01:23 PM
  #33  
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huh - who me? am i on the air?

Pretty confusing subject. I have been a "test" subject in an investigation that resulted in a published study so I feel like I "know something" about my own bone health as well as aging in general.

I think its time for Doctor Dick to tell the little ones a story about bones and bicycling.

First of all, and above all -remember this - individual results may vary. Two people could practice identical cycling routines and partake of identical diets with completely different results. In one subject , existing bone density could be preserved, while in the other subject natural bone density loss would be increased. Get that - two people doing the same thing - getting different results.


Point number two. Many different factors co mingle their effects on bone strength with the natural aging process to blur the distinction between acceptable bone density and bone health in mature adults. This is particularly true of women and the elderly, age >~70.

Because of the complexities of identifying pathological versus physiological responses to activities affecting bone health, and in addition the natural rate of aging among genders, as well as the possible contribution long term dietary habits make to "real" bone health versus existing statistical scoring data leaves much to be desired with respect to forming favorable "bone health protocols." (take that Faulknerian sentence lovers)

(above statement-translated to bt speak)People confuse bone disease and bone aging. Some people can treat bone disease, some people do not respond to treatment. Some people will grow old with denser bones than others. Why? No one knows for sure.
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Old 02-19-09, 01:38 PM
  #34  
Richard Cranium
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Yikes. And I started cycling because, suffering from osteopenia already, I got a stress fracture from running...Fortunately I'm not a competitive cyclist, but I think it's time to start lifting weights again.
The conclusions you draw from - what?

I doubt anyone knows for sure why you "stress-fractured" - other than that banged your limbs against the ground until they broke. I doubt weight-lifting will prevent that from happening again.

You win the Richard Cranium 'KNEE JERK' award..... enjoy.
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Old 02-20-09, 11:55 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
if you are just sweating out calcium, why wouldn't extra calcium in your diet fix it? I really question the idea that you have to do some kind of cross training instead. The logic there fails to impress, and that's where I'm guessing the issue of inadequate control groups probably surfaces.
You need to absorb the Calcium to get the benefit. That's one of the reasons why nutrition can be so confusing - getting the nutrients in the body doesn't mean you're going to benefit from them.
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Old 02-20-09, 03:53 PM
  #36  
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... so because of the confusion over the results, and just to be safe, in order to avoid a broken hip in a fall from a bicycle, should we all wear some kind of EPS body cast while riding to avoid injury?
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Old 03-01-09, 11:22 AM
  #37  
Richard Cranium
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You need to absorb the Calcium to get the benefit. That's one of the reasons why nutrition can be so confusing - getting the nutrients in the body doesn't mean you're going to benefit from them.
This point goes to the heart on any discussion about nutrition and disease. My previous post were an attempt to demonstrate that exercise type, in and by itself was not a determining factor in bone health.

The "problem" is that different people have endocrine systems that respond differently to continuous activity. These differing hormonal responses to exercise are the reason why people will lose or absorb minerals at differing rates.

Long term studies support the idea that some activity contributes to bone health while too much activity hastens loss of bone density or mineral loss. The same can be said for the positive or negative aspects of metabolism related to mineral supplementation.
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