kendall

Agree with degnaw, there's a road I used to take all the time that had a couple four way stops on it, you could make it through in under 10 minutes, a couple years ago they installed signals and they often has cars backed up 20 or 30 deep. Now it's normal to sit through a couple lights while there, often takes 20 minutes or more to drive it

I guess I drive differently than most people, when I come to a stop I look up and down the sidewalks if there is one, and (only) if it's clear I'll head on to the actual intersection, if it's not clear I'll hang back untill it is then move on.

Last fall I noticed that along 44th street here in GR michigan, they moved a lot of of the handicap ramps for the sidewalks on the side streets back15 or 20 feet further from the intersection, and left the stop signs where they were originally (near the old ramps). So if you stop at the sign, your rear fender is blocking the crosswalk.
I'm actually expecting people to start getting run over because it moves the crosswalk out of site of the main road, so people making the corner can't tell if the crosswalk clear, and people using the crosswalk can't tell if anyone is turning the corner.

Basically if your walking along 44th street (busy 4 lane, 45mph most of the way, main artery to the airport) when you reach a cross street, you turn the corner, walk up 20-30 feet then cross the road, it puts people where they aren't expected to be, and moves them out of site. Very bad planning in my opinion. Checked google street level and live maps birdseye, but neither are recent enough to show what I mean.

Ken.

drummer5359

There is a four way stop two blocks from my home. I walk my dog around that area every day and am astounded by the number of people in cars that creep through the intersection without coming to a stop. It seems to be eight out of ten motorists. It is at the bottom of a slight hill. What really blows me away is that at ten to eight every morning I see a bicyclist blow through this intersection at speed. He is just asking to become a statistic. I drive about 45,000 miles a year in my car thanks to my job and admittedly am a very conserative driver and rider.

uke

I blow through if I don't see cars; I stop if I do. In a car, I always stop. The one time I didn't, I was pulled over!

Square & Compas

I did not shoot this video. It was done by someone with the Iowa Bicycle Coalition and I think it was done in Iowa City, Iowa. I live in Sioux City, Iowa a long ways away. I do not know of something out of view was possibly blocking the view of the intersection and that is why drivers kept inching out.

pacificaslim, I hope you never visit my area. Unless it is the middle of the night on a residential street you always have to stop at stop signs here. There is always traffic to stop for. the California stops will get you in trouble. If I am the vehicle you are in an accident with, whether I am riding bike or driving my car, because you misjudged the distance and speed I am travelling when I have the right of way be prepared for a lot more trouble then just a citation.

drummer5359

I couldn't agree with you more "Square & Compass". Whether we are on our bike or in our car we need to play by the rules. It's really that simple to me.

chainstrainer

A search didn't pull this up as having been posted, so here is Limited Warren T: Stop II

Square & Compas

HOLY CRAP! It is like motorists think that stop sign is just a suggestion they do not have to abide by. I counted 8 total in 42 seconds and none of them stopped. One looked like it was going to but the wheels kept rolling.

pacificaslim

The fact is that a complete stop is very rarely ever necessary. If one has looked at all the places where potential hazards may appear, and has already determined it is safe to proceed, what good will come from stopping and spending additional time making the same determination? There is either something crossing your path, or not.

In fact, those that roll stop signs are often being more alert than those that just blindly pull up to the stop sign line, stop, and then glance around. Those intending to roll it are at least looking around a head of time for cops, ha!

subverita

I stop when there are other drivers in sight. I try to be a good ambassador. If there's nothing around, I proceed with caution.

IbikezLA

+1

people who blow though signs even if there are cars are just being stupid

randya

I only make a full stop when there's another motorist behind me, and no one's coming on the cross street...

urodacus

fred stops.

Square & Compas

I disagree with those who roll through stop signs are being more alert. First, if you look at the video you would see there were some drivers who barely even slowed down, they just more or less went through with out any sign of slowing.

You give both cyclists and motorists a bad name. Drivers like you are the ones I really despise when approaching a stop sign controlled intersection. You're the type who misjudge the distance I am from the intersection when I have no stop sign to stop at and you go rolling through with out stopping and almost hit me. I've had it happen more times then I care to count. My Air Zound has helped control some of it. When I see drivers rolling through an intersection and NOT stop and I am entering the intersection or about to and there is a risk of us colliding I send out a blast. That pretty much always causes a driver to stop, often slamming on their brakes. Doing this has saved my ass on more then one occasion. I have no qualms or guilt about doing this to idiot drivers like you. There is something about the 115 decibal blast of an air horn that is very effective. I can't explain it, I'm just glad it works.

I am guessing you ride your bike like you drive. Roll through stop signs, etc. That being the case it is because of you other drivers hate us. Because cyclists like you do not stop at stop signs, are supposed to and just roll through because you think your messed up philosophy if why you do it is right. Sharing the roadways and getting along goes both ways. Cyclists can not ***** and moan about what drivers do to us when there are cyclists like you who disobey the traffic laws. You're a hypocrit when it comes to something like that. The next time a motorist does something to you while you're riding bike, you'd better not come on this forum and bith about it when you ride bike the way you do an do not stop at stop signs.

Square & Compas

For those of you like pacificaslim, who blow off stop signs, let's shift the focus a little. I would like to know what you do at stop lights when there is no cross traffic and you are going straight, turning left or turning right, even though it is illegal to turn right on solid red. What do you do? Do you blow off the solid red stop light, merely slow down and roll through? Or do you stop and wait until the light turns green?

And yes there are areas where it is illegal to turn right on solid red. As far as I know it is ALWAYS illegal to turn left on solid red unless you have a green light, arrow, etc. And it is ALWAYS illegal to go straight on solid red.

When I say go through on solid red I mean WITH OUT any sort of law enforcement directing you through, thus over riding what the light is doing. I am talking about the light is working fine, you approach, you have a solid red light and there is no cross traffic and you're going straight. Do you wait for your light to turn green or do you run the solid red light?

So what do you do?

randya

wow, dude, don't get your panties all bunched up! I doubt anyone here deliberately endangers themselves or anyone else with their cycling behaviour. If anything, 'scofflaw' cyclists who are aware of what they're doing are, if anything, hyper-vigilante when they are doing it. OTOH if you're complaining about the completely clueless, I doubt you'll find them lurking here.

subverita

"idiot drivers like you...cyclists like you who disobey the traffic laws...So what do you do?"

DUDE...LIGHTEN UP rule boy. On my bike I ride through lights and stop signs when I am invisible. I always obey traffic laws when I am not. In my car I obey all the rules. Call me a hypocrit if you want, I consider myself safe and uninjured after commuting for the last 15 years. I have never had an accident or a citation.

Common sense and experience teaches you that being invisible as a cyclist is far better than being very visible. Here's an example. I'm commuting at 6:30 a.m., there a miniscule amount of traffic. I come to red lighted intersection to make a left turn. There is no traffic. Now I have no doubt you would wait for the light. I, on the other hand, will make the left turn as I am much less vulnerable out of the intersection than I am sitting in the left lane waiting to turn.

Being a good cyclist requires more than being beholden to rules. That's my two cents worth.

pacificaslim

On a bike I would certainly stop and then just go through. In a car I'd probably stop and wait, though I've been known to stop and then go through a light in the middle of the night.

The thought process would have nothing to do with safety: we've determined that there is no cross traffic and so to run the light would not be endangering anyone. The reason I'd wait in the car 99% of the time and run the light on the bike 99% of the time is that sometimes even though there is no cross traffic presenting a danger, there may be a cop hiding somewhere with his lights off and give me a ticket. Car tickets are way more disastrous financially (because they'll go on dmv record and effect insurance rates) than bike tickets, so I'm more likely to just wait at the light in a car.

But in neither case would be harming any other human being so it's ridiculous to expect us to wait at red lights when no other traffic is on the road.

(there is one stop light in the town where I work that has a no-right-turn-on-red sign. During the day I always wait for the green of course. But when working at night when no one is around, I always just go through this one. I wait in the day time because I don't want citizens complaining but at night if no one is around I just treat it like a regular light and turn when it's safe.)

dmac49

Not stopping at a stop sign as you are supposed to only puts you in the same category as the the cagers that don't give you the 3 foot or cut you off or some other stupid cager trick. Then again I must concede there are the super elite that the rules don't apply to them... on both side.

pacificaslim

Or perhaps the contrast we should be making is between those who are capable of living by the laws of physics and rules of nature and those that can't do that and so need the rule of law to keep them from hurting themselves or hurting others.

StrangeWill

Depends I would say, a slow neighborhood that you slow down and yield at the sign? Sure that's fine... blowing through one at a busy intersection, no.

IMHO: Almost all residential should be yield instead of stop.

FlatMaster

Actually, here in Huntsville, AL. most residential intersections actually are yield signs. It looked really wierd at first, but it works.

Chris516

I was thinking the exact same thing. Also the main point of the video is correct. As a cyclist, I see countless motorists that don't stop at the Stop sign. If I am trying to cross the street, numerous motorists will, not only straddle the crosswalk, they will have stopped where a pedestrian/cyclist is forced to walk into oncoming traffic, just to get around them.

chainstrainer

I encourage you to design YOUR OWN STOP SIGN. Here are my contributions:

degnaw

+1

I wasn't aware that the 'super elite' could comprise the vast majority of the population. Besides, blowing a deserted stop sign doesn't put other people at risk.

CB HI

Ok