Friend got into accident with another cyclist.
#26
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To take this a step further and apply it specifically to bikes, my city's municipal codes follow pretty close to state codes, including this:
I'll agree to an extent that we are each responsible for ourselves. But here are the codes in one city that would apply in this case. What you call "so called requirements" are in fact law, at least here.
I'll agree to an extent that we are each responsible for ourselves. But here are the codes in one city that would apply in this case. What you call "so called requirements" are in fact law, at least here.
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(10)(a) A person riding a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or pathway or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian. A person riding a bicycle in a crosswalk shall do so in a manner that is safe for pedestrians.
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#29
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#31
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The Virginia Code is very clear
§ 46.2-904. Use of roller skates and skateboards on sidewalks and shared-use paths; operation of bicycles, motorized skateboards or scooters, motor-driven cycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and electric personal assistive mobility devices on sidewalks and crosswalks and shared-use paths; local ordinances.
....
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing any pedestrian.
....
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
Maryland Laws are less explicit, but still suggests a requirement to give warning. And each local jurisdiction in MD has it's own additional laws.
§ 21-504. Drivers to exercise due care.
(a) In general.- Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, the driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian.
(b) Duty to warn pedestrians.- Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, the driver of a vehicle shall, if necessary, warn any pedestrian by sounding the horn of the vehicle.
....
The DC Code is also somewhat vague
1201.2 A person shall operate a bicycle or sidewalk bicycle in a safe and non-hazardous manner so as not to endanger himself or herself or any other person.
....
1201.10 Any person riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk shall yield the right-of way to pedestrians, and shall travel at a speed no greater than the posted speed limit of the adjacent roadway, Provided, that such speed is safe for the conditions then existing on the sidewalk..
1201.11 A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or while crossing a roadway in a crosswalk shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances, except that the bicyclist must yield to pedestrians on the sidewalk or crosswalk.
In addition, many of the trails and MUP's around here have posted rules or signs that say "give audible warning when passing"
Last edited by cc_rider; 08-03-09 at 02:22 PM.
#32
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The Virginia Code is very clear
§ 46.2-904. Use of roller skates and skateboards on sidewalks and shared-use paths; operation of bicycles, motorized skateboards or scooters, motor-driven cycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and electric personal assistive mobility devices on sidewalks and crosswalks and shared-use paths; local ordinances.
....
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing any pedestrian.
....
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
Maryland Laws are less explicit, but still suggests a requirement to give warning. And each local jurisdiction in MD has it's own additional laws.
§ 21-504. Drivers to exercise due care.
(a) In general.- Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, the driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian.
(b) Duty to warn pedestrians.- Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, the driver of a vehicle shall, if necessary, warn any pedestrian by sounding the horn of the vehicle.
....
The DC Code is also somewhat vague
1201.2 A person shall operate a bicycle or sidewalk bicycle in a safe and non-hazardous manner so as not to endanger himself or herself or any other person.
....
1201.10 Any person riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk shall yield the right-of way to pedestrians, and shall travel at a speed no greater than the posted speed limit of the adjacent roadway, Provided, that such speed is safe for the conditions then existing on the sidewalk..
1201.11 A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or while crossing a roadway in a crosswalk shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances, except that the bicyclist must yield to pedestrians on the sidewalk or crosswalk.
In addition, many of the trails and MUP's around here have posted rules or signs that say "give audible warming when passing"
§ 46.2-904. Use of roller skates and skateboards on sidewalks and shared-use paths; operation of bicycles, motorized skateboards or scooters, motor-driven cycles, electric power-assisted bicycles, and electric personal assistive mobility devices on sidewalks and crosswalks and shared-use paths; local ordinances.
....
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing any pedestrian.
....
A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
Maryland Laws are less explicit, but still suggests a requirement to give warning. And each local jurisdiction in MD has it's own additional laws.
§ 21-504. Drivers to exercise due care.
(a) In general.- Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, the driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian.
(b) Duty to warn pedestrians.- Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, the driver of a vehicle shall, if necessary, warn any pedestrian by sounding the horn of the vehicle.
....
The DC Code is also somewhat vague
1201.2 A person shall operate a bicycle or sidewalk bicycle in a safe and non-hazardous manner so as not to endanger himself or herself or any other person.
....
1201.10 Any person riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk shall yield the right-of way to pedestrians, and shall travel at a speed no greater than the posted speed limit of the adjacent roadway, Provided, that such speed is safe for the conditions then existing on the sidewalk..
1201.11 A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk or while crossing a roadway in a crosswalk shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances, except that the bicyclist must yield to pedestrians on the sidewalk or crosswalk.
In addition, many of the trails and MUP's around here have posted rules or signs that say "give audible warming when passing"
#33
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Don't you ever get tired of making an ass out of yourself?
P.S. The Ohio statute refers to both "vehicles" and "trackless trolleys." Vehicles is defined in the statute to include bicycles. For once, why don't you just admit that you were wrong?
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#35
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#36
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I posted the exact text from the law. You don't even want to look at it before insulting me again? Or you DID look at it and didn't say anything because you can't possibly admit you're wrong?
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"A person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, motorized skateboard or scooter, motor-driven cycle, or an electric power-assisted bicycle on a sidewalk, shared-use path, or across a roadway on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties of a pedestrian under the same circumstances."
Don't you ever get tired of making an ass out of yourself?
Don't you ever get tired of making an ass out of yourself?
Edit: If bicyclists are "legally"required to be treated and act as pedestrians, which side of the of the shared path do they ride on?
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-25-09 at 04:26 PM.
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Or does your presumably jailhouse law degree tell you that bicyclists must treat other bicyclists as if they were pedestrians? Lord, some BF legal wannabes sure use your imagination to stretch an internet factoid to "prove" the existence of a fabricated legal requirement.
Now can we please stop the ridiculous ad hominem and address the language of the statute?
I also note that you failed to respond to my point about the Ohio statute, which clearly and unambiguously requires "[t]he operator of a vehicle ... overtaking another vehicle ... proceeding in the same direction" to "signal to the vehicle ... to be overtaken ...."
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When the day comes that the residents of the Buckeye State actually pay any attention to this statue and comply, then Ohio will definitely be the noisiest state in the Union and be known as the Compliant State of Cacophony.
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It doesn't really matter if anybody knows about it or not. That old adage about ignorance of the law being no excuse is applicable here. In a civil suit, if there's a legal duty to signal, and failure to signal contributes to an accident, it will be an issue at trial, and ignorance of the law won't excuse the defendant from the duty to signal.
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It doesn't really matter if anybody knows about it or not. That old adage about ignorance of the law being no excuse is applicable here. In a civil suit, if there's a legal duty to signal, and failure to signal contributes to an accident, it will be an issue at trial, and ignorance of the law won't excuse the defendant from the duty to signal.
A problem in this case is that right-of-way rules aren't generally well defined on MUPs - certainly not nearly as well as they are on roadways. It appears that both parties contributed to the collision and the degree of fault of each is hard to determine without knowing all the details (and would probably still be disputed if all details were known). Hope the parties can reach an amiable settlement between themselves.
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No, it won't. I'm just not following this closely enough to have even noticed that two different states are being discussed here. Nevertheless, in Ohio, if signaling is required, it might be an issue in an Ohio trial, even if the parties are unaware of their legal duty.
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NY State does not have a specific provision, but does say:
(b) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, the
driver of an overtaken vehicle shall give way to the right in favor of
the overtaking vehicle on audible signal and shall not increase the
speed of his vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle.
driver of an overtaken vehicle shall give way to the right in favor of
the overtaking vehicle on audible signal and shall not increase the
speed of his vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle.
(b) No person shall operate a bicycle unless it is equipped with a
bell or other device capable of giving a signal audible for a distance
of at least one hundred feet, except that a bicycle shall not be
equipped with nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or
whistle.
bell or other device capable of giving a signal audible for a distance
of at least one hundred feet, except that a bicycle shall not be
equipped with nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or
whistle.
#44
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I see MUP's like I see a green run on a ski area. As a good snowboarder, I go faster than many on that run. There are people of vastly different experiences. It is my responsibility, as the overtaking individual, to make sure I don't hit someone. When I move around on a slope, I always look behind me to see if anyone is coming, but that doesn't negate an overtaking person's responsibility to avoid hitting me. In every instance, on the slope, the person uphill is at fault if a collision happens. Every time. It doesn't matter what the excuse might be. The overtaking person must look out for those downslope.
The reason this doesn't apply on the road is exactly because there are so many laws that govern all road users rights and responsibilities.
The reason this doesn't apply on the road is exactly because there are so many laws that govern all road users rights and responsibilities.
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Ya know, your friend could have avoided this entire thing by angrilly yelling 'Watch where you're going! You got in my way!' and pedaling off immedialty after impact.
The incident was the womans fault for passing unannounced, and the only reason your friend ended up agreeing to pay her bills was because she chewed him out first.
Always make sure you're the more Vocal one in a post accident argument, it really does help in causing the other party to back down and accept more blame/deter them pressing you.
The incident was the womans fault for passing unannounced, and the only reason your friend ended up agreeing to pay her bills was because she chewed him out first.
Always make sure you're the more Vocal one in a post accident argument, it really does help in causing the other party to back down and accept more blame/deter them pressing you.
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From what I see given here, I'd say she's probably more at fault than your friend. (Of course, she doesn't seem to agree, and perhaps there's more to the story.)
Though if her problem is really just an out-of-true wheel, I'd probably say `look, this was your fault and not mine, but I can true a wheel in a few minutes. Stop by my place and I'll show you how it's done. We can also check out the rest of the bike to make sure everything is OK.' Especially if she's cute.
But I'd make really sure that she knows that I'm doing this to be nice, not because I (or my friend) are responsible. After all, she could decide that her knee was hurt and she wants a big cash settlement, and attempt to say that since I fixed her tire, I was admitting responsibility ...
I don't know if the actual laws are going to matter. The police are unlikely to give a ticket. If your friend has renters or homeowner's insurance, she could make a claim and they'd work it out. If not, and he denies responsibility, really, all she could do would be to sue him or take him to small claims court -- and then that's when the actual laws might matter. But usual cycling practice (announcing your passing, for example) may very well matter too.
Though if her problem is really just an out-of-true wheel, I'd probably say `look, this was your fault and not mine, but I can true a wheel in a few minutes. Stop by my place and I'll show you how it's done. We can also check out the rest of the bike to make sure everything is OK.' Especially if she's cute.
But I'd make really sure that she knows that I'm doing this to be nice, not because I (or my friend) are responsible. After all, she could decide that her knee was hurt and she wants a big cash settlement, and attempt to say that since I fixed her tire, I was admitting responsibility ...
I don't know if the actual laws are going to matter. The police are unlikely to give a ticket. If your friend has renters or homeowner's insurance, she could make a claim and they'd work it out. If not, and he denies responsibility, really, all she could do would be to sue him or take him to small claims court -- and then that's when the actual laws might matter. But usual cycling practice (announcing your passing, for example) may very well matter too.
#47
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Unfortunately there are a lot of cyclists out there who do not think that they need to or should give warning before passing. I remember some discussions on these boards where people said that they never give warning because the person they are passing will turn around to look and get in their way. In my opinion they've made their choice and if there is a collision, it's all on them.
Last edited by cc_rider; 07-26-09 at 04:33 PM.
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Your friend should not give her a penny..........the accident was her fault. There is no law here in NYC that would place your friend at fault. As a matter of common sense and corteousy, it was up to her to either sound her bell or announce herself "On your left" (Your friend should've checked her bike for one). Had she done either of those, the accident would've never happened. Those kind of people, along with cyclists who use the trails and paths here in NYC who spent a grand on a bike but don't even have a cheap strobe when they ride at night piss me off. I feel safer riding with cars than using bike paths at night in NYC.
I'll also add, there are the morons who announce themselves "On your left" when they're right next to you, in which case, their announcement serves more to startle than anything else.
I'll also add, there are the morons who announce themselves "On your left" when they're right next to you, in which case, their announcement serves more to startle than anything else.
Last edited by ricardo_NY1; 07-28-09 at 07:04 PM.
#49
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If you want to get carried away with the idea that cyclists are legally considered "pedestrians" and must be warned when being passed by a vehicle, what is the requirement for one "pedestrian" passing another to sound a warning? What is the requirement for a "pedestrian" to come to a full stop at a stop sign?
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That enough for ya?