Wogster

Shows you how effective the state has been at promoting the 3' minimum passing law, doesn't it?

I do find in most cases, buzzing is because your too close to the curb, the car driver sees say 9' between you and the centreline and figures they don't need to cross the centre line to pass, if your out further, there isn't enough space to pass, without crossing the centre line, they then give more space, because they can. Most people generally do not want to hit a bicycle, but if they have to pick between another car and you, your going to lose because the potential for them to suffer damage and injury is quite a bit less.

genec

Not bad... but how do you explain the motorists that pass on a multilaned road and straddle two lanes passing you... and still pass close? They could have moved all the way over into the other lane. They had to go wide as the cyclist was riding in perhaps the right tire track, but instead of going all the way into the next lane over, the motorist chooses instead to straddle the lane line and pass the cycling within a foot or so. (my state has no 3 foot law... )

Wogster

Jerks are everywhere?

It really depends though on how common bicycles are, in cities where a driver can't go more then 5-10 miles without seeing a bicycle, they tend to better know how to deal with bicycles. In places where a driver can go months without seeing a bicycle on the road, they tend not to. It also depends on how ornery the cyclists are, in some places you pass a bicycle within a foot, your probably going to get a scratch all the way along your car from a keying job done with a frame pump, or a dent in the door from a cycling shoe. Not condoning violence here, but, some places the cyclists can dish it out too.....

ItsJustMe

If close passing was a problem for me, ESPECIALLY if I was in a 3 foot mandatory passing state, I'd definitely have a 3 foot rod, spring loaded, on my bike. Someone sells these, with flags. I would also add a nice sharp bit of metal at the end just for luck. Someone gets scratched, they can't really complain, can they?

njkayaker

This is a key point.

Digital_Cowboy

Yep, shows the impact of the lack of bicycle related PSAs have on the public. We need more (hell even just one would be an improvement) bicycle related PSAs. Informing/educating the driving public.

In this case I was in the right/passenger side tire track. The gas station was about on the second block from where I turned onto 9th street to go to the library. And I think that she might have been in a hurry to get into the gas station.

Digital_Cowboy

There have been plenty of times that I've wanted to lash out with my foot and put a nice dent in their car door, but have resisted cause it would probably send me flying in the opposite direction.

ghettocruiser

Also consider the nature of the roadway. On Eglinton and Don Mills I cannot even claim the diamond lane without deliberate close passes every few km.

When I used to ride up Bayview it was even worse.

joejack951

Not really. Some of the worst driving around cyclists that I've witnessed has come from members of my family (with me in the car) in places with lots of cyclists (Philadelphia and Ocean City, NJ). Close passing, intolerance of having to slow down, etc. Some people are, and always will be, overly cautious of cyclists because they don't see them often. Some people, are and always will be, a-holes around cyclists even though they are surrounded by them because they are simply jerks (on the road at least).

Wogster

That's true.... What I find interesting is why streets like Don Mills, Eglinton, Bayview, Yonge are not in the running for Bike Lanes.

njkayaker

So, there is no solution!

I think urban areas can have their own issues. Do people in Portand, OR have more tolerance for bicyclists?

The Ocean City issue might be because many of the people driving there are normally driving in places without many bicycles. That is, dropping people into places that happen to have many cyclists won't be better because these people are already habituated to a place without cyclists.

You won't eliminate a-holes but you might be able to reduce their frequency in the population. More cycling also means that more drivers either are cyclists themselves nor know cyclists. I think this has to improve things (and it might take a while and it might require a lot more cyclists).

People learn driving habits from their parents and from their own driving habits. Once those habits are formed, they don't get undone very easily.

The Human Car

Ocean City has a very high bike crash rate due in part as you say inexperienced drivers and the second part is inexperienced cyclist. As anyone can rent a bike, that is a fun thing to do on vacation right?

Personally I think part of the solution is to get enough cyclists so at least everyone knows a cyclist.

njkayaker

Yes. (I think Ocean City, NJ might be an odd example, partly due to it being a tourist destination.)

"More cyclists" should also include people cycling more frequently. The idea, of course, is that cycling be more normal for cyclists and drivers (like Portland, OR).

Yup.

The Human Car

I probably should clarify by cyclists I mean those that are willing or would like to ride from their homes (either for rec or transportation) then those that need to use a car in order to bike, at times those types of cyclists can be as much of a problem as non-cyclists. Not that there is anything wrong with using a car to go someplace nice to bike but insisting that all cycling to be done someplace else that is nice to bike... well that is just wrong.

joejack951

Um, did you notice that I mentioned these are relatives (well, in-laws) of mine? Doesn't seem to make a difference with the intolerance of slow moving traffic. Possibly contributing to the issue though is that many faults of the inexperienced cyclists that you find in a beach town. Some of the behavior (namely riding against traffic or riding at night with no lights) certainly contributes to the intolerance by giving the wrong impression of cyclists. Id would be curious to see the reaction of my father-in-law if he ever got stuck behind me while I was ignoring a door zone bike lane on the main road through OC.

njkayaker

Your relatives might not be making the association with your cycling and the cyclists that are "apparently" holding them up. They might even see your cycling as the being the "out of the way of motorists" kind. And, it's possible that your relatives are, with respect to this issue, particularly obnoxious.

It's hard to say whether your ad hoc example is representative of the population overall.

It would be interesting to see if there were more overall patience with cyclists in places like Portand, OR and the Netherlands. (Note that it's unlikely that impatience would be eliminated.)

The Human Car

Well you could say for every rule there is an exception but I would guess that on one side there is you and on the other side is your relatives associations that are anti-cyclists. So assuming that everyone knows at least 20 people that makes your point of view only 1:20XRelative#. So if Relative A's sub group of 19 that you don't know also knew a cyclists and so on through the majority of your relatives then I would suggest things would be different. One person is a crackpot, knowing of more then one on a somewhat personal (respected) basis helps dilute the crackpot notion.

But then again my father-in-law would not respect me no mater what I did, so there might be that as well.

There is also that ticket while on the bike issue, while you have our sympathies, it might be an issue of disrespect for your relatives. But if the Judge knew and respected a cyclist that outcome might have been different as well.

All this is to say there needs to be some sort of critical mass for this to happen.

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, we shouldn't have to use a car or bus in order to get somewhere where it is safe to ride our bikes. We should be free and safe to ride our bikes anywhere we like.

genec

Barry... and others... you can do your own informal survey of "the masses" to see how they really feel.

At any public event where you are not known as a cyclist and can start or join conversations easily, simply bring up the topic of riding a bike to work and ask if it is legal and safe. Be conversational... not confrontational. Mention this as your effort to "go green."

Then just listen... listen to what people say about bikes, about sharing the road and how they really feel.

What I have heard in the past is just stunning. But don't just take my word for it... try it yourself.

njkayaker

I don't think anybody here would expect results diferent from what you describe. What people are really discussing is how to change how people feel.

The other thing to keep in mind is what people report on a survey does not necessarily drive what they do.

That is, even if people say they are annoyed by bicyclists, they may act reasonably. Most of the drivers I deal with act reasonably. I have no idea what they think (I'm not telepathic).

The Human Car

Gene, you have a point but I will mention cyclist that seem to have the most influence on car-centric folks are those with an admirable story. In one meeting the subject of our (local bike advocates) age came up and every ones guess was 10-20 years younger then what we were and that made a huge impression. Other aspects of admiration are losing weight by biking, getting there faster by bike, utilitarian use of a bike. 2nd most influence is just being a heck of a good person (in other aspects besides biking) that also bikes. Knowing just one crazy cyclist really does not cut it per my informal survey.

I will also note that in car-centric neighborhoods few know their neighbors but in walkable (and to some extent bikeable) neighborhoods have the highest rate of knowing their neighbors. IMHO this also plays a part in cyclists influence on the car-centric folks.

UnsafeAlpine

I rode 12 miles today. I took the lane the entire way. 2 miles of it were 2 lane, the rest 4 lane. I couldn't give a **** who was behind me or how long they had to wait. My safety is more important than 2, 3 or even 5 minutes of someone's time.

Digital_Cowboy

I have to say that I have experienced the 10 - 20 years knocked off of ones age, and I also have to admit that it always feels good when it happens.

SortaGrey

Said LANE HOG DIVA just reflects the 'tude of the FEW with a seat imbedded when the sun don't shine.

https://www.wnbr.org/bikelaws.htm

Sure.. roads were made for bikes.... not vehicles. Bikes pay for these roads.. not motor vehicles. Everyone knows this is the WAY of the future........... in some dreamers world.

I well relate to the anger.. frustration us biking types have to the few idiots operating motor vehicles with NO respect for bikes.. the LAW.... too moronic to put SAFETY first.. where it belongs. Yet EVERYONE riding a bike needs to follow the LAWS also.. use a dab of SENSE. There's a vein of stupidity in the biking camp just like the morons driving.. walking... whatever.. on the roadways with no regard for the LAW... or their own safety.

These LANE HOG DIVA's make it harder for all of us riding bikes... instances where riding far left into the traffic lane isn't justified. These DIVA's need a wake-up call..... copping some self righteous 'tude colors this type in spades... much like the moron who doesn't respect the rights of bikers while operating a motor vehicle.

Ride LEGAL... it's about ALL of us riding BIKES.

The Human Car

An over simplification of where where the money goes (tracking by what $ goes in and what $ comes out of the system): special motor vehicle fees pay for expressways where bikes and peds are prohibited and we all pay for the other roads. Deal with it.

It is both legal and for my safety to take the lane unless there is enough space to the right kept in good condition for me to ride. Motorists may not be able to see why we are not riding as far right as possible and complain about why can't they pass us so close that that their mirror bangs us in the head. But unless pictures and specific measurements are presented we can only assume that any sane person riding within the scope of the rules of the road is in that position is doing so for their safety. In my experience very few engage in overly taking the lane certainly not enough to "make it harder for all of us riding bikes." There are too many cyclists that feel riding against traffic is the safest way to ride, too many cyclists feel that riding on the sidewalk is the safest way to ride but both have been proven to be unsafe and against the law. Similarly there are to many that feel riding as far right as possible is the safest way to go but the law clearly gives us the right to the whole lane unless there is sufficient space for us on the right for a motor vehicle to pass us within the lane they are traveling.

I will strongly assert that it is cyclists riding against traffic, riding on the sidewalk and riding as far right as possible are the ones that "make it harder for all of us riding bikes" and not the ones in the travel lane.