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Driver runs into pack of cyclists

Old 06-16-11, 08:53 AM
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Driver runs into pack of cyclists

I saw this on Yahoo:-

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bicycl...pphu-container

If the article itself isn't bad enough, read the comments section.

Where do these people come from?
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Old 06-16-11, 09:07 AM
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Ugh. So many things wrong here. A group at midnight riding at midnight get plowed into by a young, cell-phone obsessed, and possibly drunk woman. I looked at the cycling club's website, it looks like a 'hip urban-cycling' club but it does look like there is an emphasis on using lights, reflective clothing, etc. But it seems like the 27-year old woman was totally f'ed up or paying no attention whatsoever to her surroundings.

PS - Comments sections are where brain cells and common sense go to die horrible, painful deaths. Avoid at all costs.
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Old 06-16-11, 09:32 AM
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Here's a LA Times article on this:
https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...y-injured.html
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Old 06-16-11, 10:58 AM
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This happened a few blocks from my work apparently. That street isn't very busy at night by L.A. standards and is a wide, 4 lane road so she should've had plenty of room to pass, even in a drunken state.. of course, cell phone + drunk + 60mph on a city street... hope this chick goes down.
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Old 06-16-11, 11:24 AM
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While I am not in favor of riding in the dark, I expect the driver will just get a slap on the wrist and the cyclists will be blamed(again). The police will use any trumped up excuse to blame a cyclist.
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Old 06-16-11, 11:40 AM
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Sad story, could have been avoided.
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Old 06-16-11, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris516
While I am not in favor of riding in the dark
huh? You know they make lights and stuff for bikes, right? Hell, I feel safer and more visible in the dark than I do during the day.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris516
While I am not in favor of riding in the dark, I expect the driver will just get a slap on the wrist and the cyclists will be blamed(again). The police will use any trumped up excuse to blame a cyclist.
Actually these guys are pretty safe riders overall and do use flags, lights, etc. and for the most part obey common courtesy rules of the road for bikers like single file for cars etc.

That said the DA will most likely go after her pretty hard. Especially if she was under the influence when driving. There is a very much zero tolerance philosophy here in LA over drinking and driving. Especially when there are injuries involved in the accident. With a couple of the riders in the hospital with critical injuries she will most likely be looking at a long list of charges regardless of them being on bikes.

Oh and allot of police officers are riders in LA as well. Ironically they are also the ones who tend to break the laws the most and don't follow common bike to car courtesy rules from what I have seen. YMMV.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris516
While I am not in favor of riding in the dark, I expect the driver will just get a slap on the wrist and the cyclists will be blamed(again). The police will use any trumped up excuse to blame a cyclist.
Why not?!?

Originally Posted by chipcom
huh? You know they make lights and stuff for bikes, right? Hell, I feel safer and more visible in the dark than I do during the day.
Agreed, I have two Cateye Uno's mounted to my handlebars, and a third mounted to my helmet. I have a Planet Bike Super Flash mounted to the rear of my helmet, and a Cateye 5-LED taillight mounted on the pannier rack.

As well as wearing a nice reflective vest.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by upinsidemyhead
Oh and allot of police officers are riders in LA as well. Ironically they are also the ones who tend to break the laws the most and don't follow common bike to car courtesy rules from what I have seen. YMMV.
Somehow, this part does not surprise me AT ALL.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chipcom
huh? You know they make lights and stuff for bikes, right? Hell, I feel safer and more visible in the dark than I do during the day.
Yes, I know about lights. I have not come across a bike light that was bright enough.

Yesterday I had to stop by the doctor's office to make an appointment. On the way there, I came across a cyclist who had done something creative to his mountain bike. He had taken a light is usually positioned right next to the yellow/orange turn signal of a car/truck, and put it on the front of his bike for a headlight. For his tail light, he got a hold of one of the brake lights from the tractor of an big rig and made it his brake light. He did have 9-Volt batteries for both of them with some kind of wiring that he had done.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by upinsidemyhead
Actually these guys are pretty safe riders overall and do use flags, lights, etc. and for the most part obey common courtesy rules of the road for bikers like single file for cars etc.

That said the DA will most likely go after her pretty hard. Especially if she was under the influence when driving. There is a very much zero tolerance philosophy here in LA over drinking and driving. Especially when there are injuries involved in the accident. With a couple of the riders in the hospital with critical injuries she will most likely be looking at a long list of charges regardless of them being on bikes.

Oh and allot of police officers are riders in LA as well. Ironically they are also the ones who tend to break the laws the most and don't follow common bike to car courtesy rules from what I have seen. YMMV.
I am not implying that they are not safe riding at that time of night. I am just saying that riding at that time of night may be turned into an excuse by the court, to find the cyclists' at fault, instead of the driver.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris516
Yes, I know about lights. I have not come across a bike light that was bright enough.

Yesterday I had to stop by the doctor's office to make an appointment. On the way there, I came across a cyclist who had done something creative to his mountain bike. He had taken a light is usually positioned right next to the yellow/orange turn signal of a car/truck, and put it on the front of his bike for a headlight. For his tail light, he got a hold of one of the brake lights from the tractor of an big rig and made it his brake light. He did have 9-Volt batteries for both of them with some kind of wiring that he had done.
I have two lighting systems that employ quartz halogen bulbs. Trust me they light up the entire road. In the past I have used a similar system and more than once have had motorists flash their headlights in an attempt signal me to "dim" my "high beams."

Sadly being a bicycle headlight it only had two settings, on or off.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris516
While I am not in favor of riding in the dark...
How am I supposed to get to work in the winter? Or home from work for that matter?
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Old 06-16-11, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Associated Press
...she slowed down, then sped up and slammed into the group, sending some riders flying into the air and dragging at least one under her car.
That's awful!
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Old 06-16-11, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Why not?!?
Visibility is lower in the dark.

Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
I have two Cateye Uno's mounted to my handlebars, and a third mounted to my helmet. I have a Planet Bike Super Flash mounted to the rear of my helmet, and a Cateye 5-LED taillight mounted on the pannier rack.

As well as wearing a nice reflective vest.
I wear the Planet Bike Super Flash on my back. I need to get a new reflective vest because a big hole ripped in mine yesterday. My reflective windbreaker is made of better material so I will have to wear that despite the heat.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by scroca
How am I supposed to get to work in the winter? Or home from work for that matter?
You just have to do it(ride in the dark) because that is your only option.

I probably need better lights. Then I wouldn't be so adverse to riding in the dark.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris516
Yes, I know about lights. I have not come across a bike light that was bright enough.
Then you haven't been looking very hard.
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Old 06-16-11, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris516
Visibility is lower in the dark.
That's not a problem with the lights that I use. Particularly when I get my quartz halogen lights back up and running. As I said they really light up the road at night.

Originally Posted by Chris516
I wear the Planet Bike Super Flash on my back. I need to get a new reflective vest because a big hole ripped in mine yesterday. My reflective windbreaker is made of better material so I will have to wear that despite the heat.
Is the hole just in the mesh, or is it in the reflective material? If it's the mesh what's the problem? If it's in the reflective material than yeah, replace it.
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Old 06-16-11, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by limeylew
If the article itself isn't bad enough, read the comments section.
Here is another story on the incident and it allows comments too.

The comments here are much better, with only a few people blaming the cyclists.

I think the difference is the comment system. When Facebook handles the comments, most people ate not anonymous (unless they set up fake Facebook profiles, which I suspect Tammie did) and so they put more thought into their posts and think about how it reflects upon them.

I think this comic explains it well. (Warning: bad language.)

Here's another story on the incident. Comments are not on Facebook, and therefore bad.
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Old 06-16-11, 02:06 PM
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More on this from Yahoo news...

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bicyclists_struck

Couple of lines in the above story are real face slappers...
The crash injured 11 riders, including at least one person who was hospitalized in critical condition and expected to survive, said Officer Jacquelyn Abad.

The car turned from a blind corner and hit riders who had stopped in a traffic lane to wait for others to catch up, said Sgt. David Krumer, the LAPD's bicycle liaison.

There were no skid marks so it was difficult to determine how fast the car was moving, Krumer said.

He could not confirm reports that a streetlight in the area was out.

"It appears that they were stopped in traffic" and some who had dismounted to chat with friends technically were pedestrians, Krumer said.

Bicyclists have a legal right to use the right traffic lane unless they impede traffic, and pedestrians are barred from traffic lanes, Krumer said. Violators potentially could be cited, he added.

However, drivers have a legal responsibility to exercise caution regardless of the circumstances, Krumer said.
BTW that is "Sgt. David Krumer, the LAPD's bicycle liaison."

So a stopped cyclist is instantly converted to pedestrian?

Right to use the right traffic lane unless they impede traffic?

And this guy thinks about citing the victims?

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Old 06-16-11, 02:29 PM
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Lots of them seemed to have been practically pedestrians, having stopped at the traffic light. One would think that having dismounted your bike, and being among a large group, it should be safe. Apparently not.
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Old 06-16-11, 03:20 PM
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She's driving at 1:50 A.M., likely drunk and, at least according to some witnesses, on a cell phone, which makes her doubly drunk. She allegedly slowed down, then sped up and plowed the group. In spite of all that, she is charged with a misdemeanor. I hope, but doubt, that the low charge is just to hold her while they await the results of her blood alcohol test, phone records and sort out the witness statements.

What does it take to get an attempted murder charge in this country? At least the next time she does this, and they all do it again, if she is in SoCal she will be charged with murder or attempted murder since the DA's thereabouts are forcing convicted drunk drivers to sign paperwork that makes such a charge on subsequent occasions a slam dunk. Someday we'll make that paperwork a part of the licensing process.
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Old 06-16-11, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
What does it take to get an attempted murder charge in this country?
Intent, which the driver lacks, unless they pull up her texting history and it reads: OMG these stupid cyclists are gonna die >: ( . Is there such a thing as attempted manslaughter? Hopefully a guilty conviction on even a minor charge will assist the victims with any civil court claims they bring against her.
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Old 06-16-11, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GriddleCakes
Intent, which the driver lacks, unless they pull up her texting history and it reads: OMG these stupid cyclists are gonna die >: ( . Is there such a thing as attempted manslaughter? Hopefully a guilty conviction on even a minor charge will assist the victims with any civil court claims they bring against her.
If, as has been alleged, she slowed down and then sped up to plow them, that looks an awful lot like intent. She at least didn't feel moved enough to take any evasive actions which could be read as depraved indifference. Thankfully, the law allows for intent to be bypassed a bit with willful (read repeat) drunk drivers because of the reckless indifference to human life that these folks exhibit. There have been a few second degree murder convictions in SoCal using this tactic.
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