Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

Have you ever cycled/walked to school with her? Your case will be strengthed a lot if you can say "I've gone with my daughter as shes cycled, and I haven't witnessed any issues with cars manouevring around her".

Don't blame the police for this one. If they've received more than one complaint they have to do something. I get the impression they've come up against a wall not kowing what to do - there are no laws being broken - and so, in a way, passed the buck on again asking for 'advice' (read as a 'decision') from the CPS or the DA.

The root of the complaint is the biggest issue to tackle. Its one of two things:
1. Your daughter really is somehow getting in the way of cars and putting herself in a position you wouldn't like her to be
or
2. Shes doing nothing wrong and you've got some really vindictive school run parents who hate being held up for a few seconds

If I were you I'd want to go with her to school a few times to make sure it isn't 1., and to give me the power of saying that its number 2., and then hell, make a counter complaint to the police about the inconsiderate drivers around school opening/closing time!

Originally Posted by joejack951

Yeah, they can inform the busy-bodies that the young girl is operating legally as a driver of a vehicle. ABSOLUTELY no need to attack the mother of the girl as they've done.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

I have not ridden with her in a while but I am going to for a few days next week (at a distance behind her because I expect the police to intervene). In my opinion the problem isn't her - the police have freely admitted she rides safely and courteously. What I believe the problem is that there is a school bus and these people cant understand why any child would choose to exert the effort to ride a bike when she could be on a bus.

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

I fully agree with you and suspect the same, I'm just hinting that being able to say that you heard the officers concerns, acted on them by following her to school, and now are completely satisfied that the officers concerns, tough well meant, were misplaced is quite powerful.

Just keep an eye out for the nuisance drivers and get ready to report them, as I suspect its their complaints that have started this!

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

Unfortunately, in todays society, yes they do. If a car driver, not paying attention wipes that girl out tomorrow, and the hadn't done SOMETHING, then its the police force that gets sued. I don't know if its the same in the US, but in the UK if the complaint was made to a single officer, they could actually end up losing their job and facing criminal charges. The excuse of "the complaint was bull", despite its validity, carries no weight to the hindsight warriors of whatever the US equivalent of the police complaints comission is.

After complaints, they did what I think any force would have done. They offered their own advice, and the then sought expert advice (the DA) and passed that on too. The individual officer may not even agree with the DA's advice - I know I don't.

But don't kid yourself that we live in a world where the police are allowed to use common sense. That vanished years ago I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

Heh, I was going to suggest getting a cycle cam for your daughter to, but just didn't as you said in an earlier post about not having much cash!

I think thats a great plan

Originally Posted by joejack951

No interpretation of laws is needed here. What the girl is doing is LEGAL. Get over it. The police have no right to try and restrict someone's freedom based on their own opinions and that is what is going on here.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

Well the chief of police called me back (after talking to the district attorney) And said although she is not violating any laws until they hear from child protective services that if I allow her to ride her bike I will breaking the law by putting her in an unsafe position.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

I have not ridden with her in a while but I am going to for a few days next week (at a distance behind her because I expect the police to intervene). In my opinion the problem isn't her - the police have freely admitted she rides safely and courteously. What I believe the problem is that there is a school bus and these people cant understand why any child would choose to exert the effort to ride a bike when she could be on a bus.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

Yes I am a single parent but that makes NO difference whatsoever. I am NOT violating any law on the local, county, state or federal laws by allowing her to ride to school. It to a LARGE degree about her bike because the children that walk home are not suffering this harassment. The basis of the investigation was because of complaints received about a small child riding her bike to school AND that this child was causing motorist to have to maneuver around her. That is the basis of the entire investigation, including the child protective services and the DA office. Please explain to me HOW that is not a cycle issue?
io
again this is the school https://g.co/maps/upqd

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

Well the chief of police called me back (after talking to the district attorney) And said although she is not violating any laws

until they hear from child protective services that if I allow her to ride her bike I will breaking the law by putting her in an unsafe position.

Originally Posted by lostarcitect

The OP said the officer did not say any such thing. Do you really think people should blindly follow authority like that?

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

There are plenty of times when police officers can and are called to stop perfectly legal activity - in the UK at least, and I'm sure its the same over there. Examples? (and I'll try to stick to the children scenarios)

1. if we saw a child drinking alcohol in the street, we'd stop them, take the alcohol and take them home. This (against what most people think) isn't illegal in the UK, its only illegal to buy alcool under 18, not to consume it. However, bearing the risks in mind we would restrict the liberty of that child to take them home,

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

2. Children swimming in a dangerous river. Not illegal, but clearly unsafe. Police would intervene and advise.

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

3. If someone reported to us that they thought a child was lost, without a parent, we'd speak to the child, and if not satisfied regarding their safety, take them home and advise.

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

4. If you have a row with your child and they run away from home, you call us to help look for them. No laws broken by them, no illegal action committed - but when we find them we're still bringing them back to you, even if they don't want to come (if we consider your home safe of course!)

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

When it comes to children, safety is above all else. Whether the children are committing an offence doesn't come into it, we have a duty to act on any call and ensure their safety.

Please don't get angry and assume I'm saying the OP shouldn't let her daughter ride to school, I am not saying this in anyway - just trying to point out the root of the problem was the complaint, and explain the reasons behind some of the police action.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

Yes I am a single parent but that makes NO difference whatsoever.

Originally Posted by 2manybikes

Of course it makes a difference. I knew you were a single parent, but, I thought it was more polite to ask instead of tell you I know. I guess it does not matter. It's easier to have the kids at home watched while the other drives one kid someplace with two parents. It's constant problem. You can say whatever you want in response to this post, but I know this is a problem.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

Yes I am a single parent but that makes NO difference whatsoever.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

Well my husband talked with the officer at the school this morning who says they have been receiving 'complaints' about a young child riding to school and back (remember this is a distance of 1 mile).

Originally Posted by NYgreyrider

After reading the post above how did you know she was a single parent?I have never heard of someone who is married, regardless of whether the husband is the biological father, be referred to as a single parent. Either way, it seems from her post, as if another adult is somehow involved in this situation.

Originally Posted by sathor

I think she 'means' that she is a classic stay at home mother, with the husband gone much of the day. I am a stay at home dad, and while my wife was working one job, she would leave at 5 in the morning and get back at 7 at night, and it was much like being a single parent.

Originally Posted by CopperCyclist

As a UK officer, I'd only make this sort of call if I'd just seen your child riding in a manner likely to cause an accident. He stated himself this wasn't the case, so I can't really see that being the issue.

I'd therefore assume his problem is the 10 year old travelling to school unsupervised, rather than the cycling aspect. This is further backed up by his quote of "it'd be different if she was 14 or 15". We are therefore into the realms of grey area of what age a child can go to school unsupervised. There is no age prescribed in UK law for this, its a (wait for it) judgement call!

The officers given you his advice. My advice to you would be to do as you have, and make your own informed choice. You certainly don't come across as an uncaring mother, and won't have a thing to worry about when it comes to Child Protective Services.

Lastly, it may not have been meant to be a threat about CPS. If its the same over there as it is in the UK, its probably arse-covering rules that mean he HAS to put a report in, purely to avoid any comeback on the police if something did happen later. I can promise you I've had to put plenty of reports into our version of CPS, Social Services where I've stressed that its a loving/caring family with no issues etc. Pure paperwork exercise.

So if I were you, I'd simply thank the officer for his concern, acknowledge it, but explain your views as you did above, then forget about the whole incident.

Originally Posted by contango

If the OP is an oil baron, a hedge fund manager or a dot-com billionaire then their kid is an obvious target. If they are an average mother living an average life then their child is no more likely to be abducted riding their bike than they are playing in the school field or going round to see a friend.

Perhaps the key question here is what age does a child have to have attained before being outside without a parent watching over them is considered a safe thing. Let's face it, if two or three heavy guys wanted to kidnap an average adult from their bike they could probably do it.

Originally Posted by genec

Of course you could "drive" her to school by riding a bike along with her... heck the exercise might be good for you too.

I generally agree with you... I am merely offering suggestions to get the busy bodies off of your back. On the flip side... if these folks do see your daughter, perhaps they are actually watching out for her.

Used to be that the "village" watched out for each other, and neighbors talked and knew one another.

Originally Posted by BikeMomTn

Well I talked with the 2nd in command at the police station who is now (different from the officer) telling me they are worried about her being abducted. I politely reminded him she could be abducted from my front yard or between here and the bus stop realistically and this is a risk every child faces every day in all places.

He went on to say he would look into this and if child protective serves says I'm wrong blah blah blah but that isn't too much of a concern to me because there is no law being violated and I am certainly not expecting her to ride in unacceptable conditions. I will keep y'all updated as to what happens with this situation for sure.

Originally Posted by thdave

That officer was an ass, but I suspect it stems from the ass who called in a complaint. Still, that threat was way out of line and I'd visit with the police chief.

BTW--it is a bad idea to contact child protection services. They are not there to judge your parenting methods unless you neglect your children, which you clearly aren't. Key to this whole this is fitness.

I hope one day your daughter can find a friend to ride with, and then more friends and finally, in the end, change the mindset of your community.

Originally Posted by NYgreyrider

True, however it is the stranger abductions that are the most dangerous for the child.

From the amber alert website:



Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean there is no reason for concern. To this day the county I live in and the surrounding counties are still in shock over a child abduction that occurred under very similar circumstances to what this officer is addressing.
Here is an excerpt from the case I'm talking about: Sara Ann Wood, Wood was last seen riding her pink and white ten-speed mountain bicycle to her family's residence on Hacadam Road in Frankfort, New York on August 18, 1993. She was returning from Norwich Corners Church on Roberts Road and Gaffenburg Road in Frankfort, where she attended summer Bible school. The church was less than a mile from her house. Wood picked up some posterboard, a church song book, and some 8-by-10-inch plastic transparencies at the church before heading home. She apparently made it safely down Roberts Road and was last seen pedaling up a steep hill on Hacadam Road, four-tenths of a mile from her residence. Wood's bicycle and the supplies she'd picked up were discovered in an area of brush several hundred feet off of Hacadam Road later in the evening. The bicycle was leaning against a tree and the supplies were scattered nearby. Lewis Lent,suspected serial killer and child abductor, would later admit to Wood's abduction an murder.

Just because something is extremely rare doesn't mean steps to avoid is shouldn't be taken or at the very least suggested. I am all for any legal action that police can take to prevent an incident like this from occurring again. In this case it seems the officer informed the parents of a potential safety risk. It appears the message was not delivered clearly or properly and seemed to condemn instead of properly inform. That's a shame because what could have been an important message has been interpreted, by some, as a meddling, bored police officer abusing his authority.

In the end, as it appears no laws are being broken, it is a judgement call for the parents to make. Every parent must find their own balance between living with fear and living. As a parent, if I were the OP, I would just consider the officer's opinion as just that an opinion. I would give his opinion the weight I felt it deserved in the future and adjust my decision according to my best judgement with the additional information I now have.